Ryan F. Mercer
Whys
Yeah I know. Seriously tho... you're a machine. Hope you continue to have the time and energy to see all of these ideas to fruition.
IndieStone D.U.C.K.S mod
- Thread starter lemmy101
- Start date
You could maybe use some sort of emigration (im guessing nicked out of the emigration mod) as an effect. People emigrating from less devout cities to more devout as some sort of pilgrimage?
Also, wikipedia list of things banned by the taleban
A few resources & techs could be locked out if your religion gets too fundamentalist
Also, wikipedia list of things banned by the taleban
A few resources & techs could be locked out if your religion gets too fundamentalist
lemmy101
Emperor
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Interesting idea, we certainly want to add emigration at some point, tying it into religion and having pilgrimages seems like a nice way to approach it.
Yeah this is one of the core ideas of the fundamentalist path, unfortunately a lot of it is not possible with Lua.
Ryan F. Mercer
Whys
Yeah this is one of the core ideas of the fundamentalist path, unfortunately a lot of it is not possible with Lua.
Have you thought about removing resource visibility for the player? Kind of poetic really.
lemmy101
Emperor
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New info:
Influence, Requests and Demands
With the mod comes a new system that ties deeply into religion, but also other areas of the game. The mod will define various groups in your Civ who can get more or less influence down to social policies or religious doctrine you choose.
Each group starts with 0 influence, and some policies/doctrine will say +/- <group> influence, meaning that group has more influence in society and therefore more sway to make requests or demands off you.
The Democracy social policy, for example, gives +2 Citizen Influence. When influence is greater than zero, occasionally if a city is unhappy the population may make a request for a building or an improvement with a bonus if the request is completed in time. As the influence rises, the requests will become bigger, at higher levels of happiness, and will become demands with more and more severe penalties for not completing.
The different groups are:
Citizen
Either general population or the population of a city. Will make requests for stuff such as building a building / unit / improvement, will give rewards such as an X turn happiness bonus, extra culture, food, gold etc. Punishments include extra unhappiness, or in extreme cases create pillage improvements or create rebels around a city.
Faithful
The pious population of a city or of your Civ. Will generally make requests relating to religious buildings, demand a priest specialist for X turns.
Religious Leaders
The religious authority for your religion. The later, more powerful doctrine will slowly raise the religious leaders power in your civ, and these can be quite problematic if you let their influence get too high. They will make requests for religious buildings, as well as in extreme cases demand wars, or the permanent banning of resources and so on.
Influence, Requests and Demands
With the mod comes a new system that ties deeply into religion, but also other areas of the game. The mod will define various groups in your Civ who can get more or less influence down to social policies or religious doctrine you choose.
Each group starts with 0 influence, and some policies/doctrine will say +/- <group> influence, meaning that group has more influence in society and therefore more sway to make requests or demands off you.
The Democracy social policy, for example, gives +2 Citizen Influence. When influence is greater than zero, occasionally if a city is unhappy the population may make a request for a building or an improvement with a bonus if the request is completed in time. As the influence rises, the requests will become bigger, at higher levels of happiness, and will become demands with more and more severe penalties for not completing.
The different groups are:
Citizen
Either general population or the population of a city. Will make requests for stuff such as building a building / unit / improvement, will give rewards such as an X turn happiness bonus, extra culture, food, gold etc. Punishments include extra unhappiness, or in extreme cases create pillage improvements or create rebels around a city.
Faithful
The pious population of a city or of your Civ. Will generally make requests relating to religious buildings, demand a priest specialist for X turns.
Religious Leaders
The religious authority for your religion. The later, more powerful doctrine will slowly raise the religious leaders power in your civ, and these can be quite problematic if you let their influence get too high. They will make requests for religious buildings, as well as in extreme cases demand wars, or the permanent banning of resources and so on.
Another question: With this mod, how much importance is going to be in the religion system? Think social policies. We only have to think about that when the policy is available. Will the same apply to religion? Will religion have to be micromanaged and actively manipulated to keep your civilization moving along?
Could we, perhaps, play a full game without touching religion actively? A lot of focus of the mod is being about religion, I recognize, but I want to know if religion will become the overarching gameplay factor of a Civ game or will it be a supporting feature aimed at making the gameplay more enjoyable?
Could we, perhaps, play a full game without touching religion actively? A lot of focus of the mod is being about religion, I recognize, but I want to know if religion will become the overarching gameplay factor of a Civ game or will it be a supporting feature aimed at making the gameplay more enjoyable?
Galacticat42
Drifting through space, lost
@ Putmalk
My take on this is that you may choose to found a religion if you want, which it will provide pros and cons if you do. If not, then you can hope no other civs makes a religion otherwise you'd be answering to theirs which might not be in your best interest.
My take on this is that you may choose to found a religion if you want, which it will provide pros and cons if you do. If not, then you can hope no other civs makes a religion otherwise you'd be answering to theirs which might not be in your best interest.
Ryan F. Mercer
Whys
lemmy, as long as you use the latest version of SaveUtils (version 5) and include the ShareData.lua along with its necessary InGame.xml entry, you won't have any compliance issues with ISData.Data, shared or not, you'll just take an extra hit to performance because you'll still have to disable caching and thus you'll be deserializing more often than needed. So just add the share to ISData and continue to load and save as you normally do. You won't be using SaveUtils shared cache, but at least ISData will be accessible to other mods that know how to look for it. Given this, I recommend sharing ISData as a context-global.
It's not a full solution, but it's not a bad compromise either.
Of course you know, once you release the religion mod, you won't be able to keep me from implementing the shared cache...
It's not a full solution, but it's not a bad compromise either.
Of course you know, once you release the religion mod, you won't be able to keep me from implementing the shared cache...
Ryan F. Mercer
Whys
Forgive me if someone in this thread already mentioned this...
I think that's supposed to be 'The Decider' not 'The Deceiver'
Boy does he have you fooled.
lemmy101
Emperor
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Certainly we're keen to avoid adding anything that becomes a burden, so you don't have to worry about that. The option for religion not to be a focus of your game is obviously a valid one, but the actual decision to found a religion itself is not optional if religion is turned on. Just if you don't bother with religion then culture wins are probably out the window, as you'll be avoiding temples / monuments etc or at least not focusing on them. The idea being that a science victory will always be easier if you don't push your religion as you'll be able to grab the Enlightenment in little more than a normal tech's research time.
If you don't actively push your religion, then there will come a point in the game where another religion comes into your lands, you can just take that one as state religion and leave the decisions in another player's hands without the hassle of dealing with the pros-cons, so certainly dealing with other religions will be a factor in any game, though the decision to maintain your own or whether to let it dwindle away is yours.
The idea for all these gameplay features is they will sit alongside the core game, not be the main factor, even if these gameplay features are quite deep in themselves we don't want to take away from other elements. I would say there is more consideration between doctrine than there is between policies though what with the spreading and so on.
lemmy101
Emperor
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Forgive me if someone in this thread already mentioned this...
I think that's supposed to be 'The Decider' not 'The Deceiver'
!Very exciting project!
The bit about tile-based urban development is something I've wanted to see in Civ for a long while now. But getting something that radical to work with the current AI would seem to require rewriting whole parts of the game.
At any rate, really looking forward to seeing this religion and corporation system in the game.
Properly working, I honestly think it would be a better system than anything Firaxis could hope to come up with in its place.
The bit about tile-based urban development is something I've wanted to see in Civ for a long while now. But getting something that radical to work with the current AI would seem to require rewriting whole parts of the game.
At any rate, really looking forward to seeing this religion and corporation system in the game.
Properly working, I honestly think it would be a better system than anything Firaxis could hope to come up with in its place.
Iceco
Warlord
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You could divide the current hexes into 7 (like approximately a current hex and all its neighbours) for city development/tile improvement alone. That would still make for a realistic environment without having to scale up the game that drastically (which could be impossible to process for most PCs).
That could actually increase coherency between the terrain and improvement, so you have hill 'sites' for several improvements instead of occupying an entire hill with a single mine, or city blocks.
That could actually increase coherency between the terrain and improvement, so you have hill 'sites' for several improvements instead of occupying an entire hill with a single mine, or city blocks.
Iceco
Warlord
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- Messages
- 188
It probably isn't 
What I was thinking is that you could add a menu that when building an improvement you then chose which 'sub-hex' you want the improvement in and then depending on what option the player clicked, another layer is picked to represent the improvement.
So basically, you click 'Improve tile', then you get a menu with a gigantic hex on it and click on the spot you want to build on and what improvement, and depending on your choice, you'll actually be building something like 'Farm5' on that hex, which still allows for *1, *2, *3,*4, *6, *7 and road improvements to be built on that tile.
(Hope that makes sense.)
I don't know if that's possible, but the game already allows for 2 improvements per tile and adding a menu to determine if the player actually wants Farm1 or Farm2, Farm3,... sounds possible.
The only problems I see are getting the AI to build several road improvements per hex (could be solved by keeping the road improvements on the 'hex level'?) and if you want to change the resource yields in the sub-hexes.
What I was thinking is that you could add a menu that when building an improvement you then chose which 'sub-hex' you want the improvement in and then depending on what option the player clicked, another layer is picked to represent the improvement.
So basically, you click 'Improve tile', then you get a menu with a gigantic hex on it and click on the spot you want to build on and what improvement, and depending on your choice, you'll actually be building something like 'Farm5' on that hex, which still allows for *1, *2, *3,*4, *6, *7 and road improvements to be built on that tile.
(Hope that makes sense.)
I don't know if that's possible, but the game already allows for 2 improvements per tile and adding a menu to determine if the player actually wants Farm1 or Farm2, Farm3,... sounds possible.
The only problems I see are getting the AI to build several road improvements per hex (could be solved by keeping the road improvements on the 'hex level'?) and if you want to change the resource yields in the sub-hexes.
lemmy101
Emperor
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This all sounds way too complicated. It's a nice idea definitely, but our goal with each feature is try as much as possible to make it feel like an official part of the game, as if they could be in an expansion pack, and I feel adding a menu for 'which segment of the hex' seems like a workaround and not the natural way to approach building things.
Besides I don't think the scale issue is an issue at all, really. The idea being that a farm will probably do the work for 4 farms, a trading post likewise, meaning there is plenty of space in the remaining tiles for buildings, especially since not every city needs every building, in fact we'd prefer to make the player have difficult choices when space is low.
Anyway this is all way in the future, still plenty to do with Religion before we even think about this one.
It's a nice idea definitely, but our goal with each feature is try as much as possible to make it feel like an official part of the game, as if they could be in an expansion pack, and I feel adding a menu for 'which segment of the hex' seems like a workaround and not the natural way to approach building things.Besides I don't think the scale issue is an issue at all, really. The idea being that a farm will probably do the work for 4 farms, a trading post likewise, meaning there is plenty of space in the remaining tiles for buildings, especially since not every city needs every building, in fact we'd prefer to make the player have difficult choices when space is low.
Anyway this is all way in the future, still plenty to do with Religion before we even think about this one.
Ryan F. Mercer
Whys
The hard part would be running your power lines over diagonal roads, or intersecting two tunnels. Will "call cousin Vinny" still work from the lua console?
While dividing the hexs sounds overwhelming, it's worth mentioning that the city tile puts several buildings in the same hex in a similar way. The difference is they aren't also treated as improvements. But it is potentially possible that you could treat improvements more like a city tile. So there would be a single generic improvement that you would then add buildings to. When pillaging, you would select which building to destroy in that improvement.
Interestingly, if such a system were implemented, it might also be possible to pillage the real city tile the same way. Imagine, having to pillage the city walls before you could actually occupy it.
While dividing the hexs sounds overwhelming, it's worth mentioning that the city tile puts several buildings in the same hex in a similar way. The difference is they aren't also treated as improvements. But it is potentially possible that you could treat improvements more like a city tile. So there would be a single generic improvement that you would then add buildings to. When pillaging, you would select which building to destroy in that improvement.
Interestingly, if such a system were implemented, it might also be possible to pillage the real city tile the same way. Imagine, having to pillage the city walls before you could actually occupy it.
