Info - Have you ever been unable to post a poll because of Citizen Poll Restrictions?

[Shaitan]

This is a quick info poll related to the current discussion on Citizen Polling Restrictions. Poll restrictions prevent citizens from posting polls that deal directly with a leader's duties and responsibilities.

This poll will run for 48 hours, ending on July 4 at 14:30 GMT.

If you vote "YES", please post a description of the poll that you were unable to post.

 

[disorganizer]

no. because i posted them anyways. nobody cared about them till now. if we would care, i would have to post yes.

poll example: provincial borders (domestic department responsibility)

 

[Shaitan]

disorganizer - what polls that you've posted do you think violated the polling restrictions? As far back as I can recall you haven't posted anything that infringed on an official's duties.

 

[disorganizer]

see edited post. i would have to have it requested from the department ;-)
this is the point where it would have colided with the restrictions if we would have enforced them.

 

[donsig]

I think I posted polls in term one as a citizen but I don't have time to track them down.

I think there were others who did so as well then and as disorganizer pointed out no one cared. I'd say if we can find evidence that such polls have already been posted that would strengthen the reasons for allowing citizens to post any polls.

 

[Shaitan]

If I remember correctly, there were extenuating circumstances for that poll. You had requested the poll and the leader had not responded to your request. You waited a few days and then posted the poll yourself.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Shaitan
If I remember correctly, there were extenuating circumstances for that poll. You had requested the poll and the leader had not responded to your request. You waited a few days and then posted the poll yourself.

That doesn't make it legal, does it?

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Shaitan
If I remember correctly, there were extenuating circumstances for that poll. You had requested the poll and the leader had not responded to your request. You waited a few days and then posted the poll yourself.

Yeah. That was during the period when I was working long hours trying to meet deadlines in RL. I didn't have time to take a look at the discussion and the maps, so I didn't feel I could post an appropriate poll. So, I let dis do it, which worked out fine.

What I am trying to avoid is not people posting polls about the democracy game mechanics, but rather, I would like only leaders to post polls about the actual game of CIV3. Any citizen should be able to post a poll about the demo game, as these are not going to be directly within the jurisdiction of a leader.

Another reason for only allowing leaders to post polls in their jurisdiction is that they can be held accountable for a biased or incomplete poll, whereas a citizen cannot.

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by donsig


That doesn't make it legal, does it?

Absolutely not. Although I favor the current rules I like to keep an open mind. Disorganizer's poll was well formatted and well received and is an example of a citizen posting an excellent but technically illegal poll after trying to work with the rules. It's an example that strongly favors removing the poll restrictions.

Just looking for all the info.

 

[Shaitan]

So that particular poll was delegated back to the citizen by the leader. The authority of the office was behind the poll. Perhaps instead of a prohibition against citizens posting these polls we need a right of refusal by the leader. Instead of requesting a poll, the citizen posts the intended poll. The leader has 24 hours (for example) to agree to post the poll or let the citizen do so.

 

[Cyc]

Run that by me again, Shaitan?

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by Cyc
Run that by me again, Shaitan?

Sure...

The biggest concerns are freedom of speech and time for response. Our current rules say that a citizen should suggest a poll. The leader can post it or not, as he wishes. If the poll suggestion gets 2 more citizens to support it, the leader must post the poll. As far as I'm concerned, this takes care of freedom of speech. If the idea has merit (minimal approval) it will get polled.

What it doesn't address is time. Especially when things might need to be polled for the next chat turn. My suggestion was that instead of requesting a poll and waiting for a leader's response, a citizen could simply notify the leader of the proposed poll. The leader then has 24 hours (or whatever is decided on) to post the poll. If they don't, the citizen may post it.

This gives the leaders the opportunity to govern their sphere but raises the level of citizen freedom of speech. This would lower the requirement of interested citizens to 1 and increase the speed that proposed polls are posted.

Is any of this necessary? I don't know. From the looks of this sidebar poll this whole problem is just in our heads. I've never noticed a leader ever refusing to post a poll. Generally speaking, the leaders are on top of their stuff and are the ones jumping to a poll when discussion and events warrant it.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Shaitan
Is any of this necessary? I don't know. From the looks of this sidebar poll this whole problem is just in our heads. I've never noticed a leader ever refusing to post a poll. Generally speaking, the leaders are on top of their stuff and are the ones jumping to a poll when discussion and events warrant it.

No, none of it is necessary. Let's just drop the rule and say there are no restrictions on citizens posting polls. I agree the problem is in our heads - we think we'll have trouble if we let the rabble go about posting any polls they want. I say let's give 'em a chance. If it becomes a problem then we can make any necessary rules.

 

[Cyc]

Quote of Shaitan:

Our current rules say that a citizen should suggest a poll. The leader can post it or not, as he wishes. If the poll suggestion gets 2 more citizens to support it, the leader must post the poll. As far as I'm concerned, this takes care of freedom of speech. If the idea has merit (minimal approval) it will get polled.


IMHO, and it may be the opinion of others here, the rule quoted above eliminates a Leader from ignoring a request to post an official poll. This is a needed rule, and has the intent of helping and protecting the citizenry. I think it should stay.

Your idea for a change appears to be a failed attempt to get a Leader to post an official poll, and then the citizen having to post an informational poll. Not Good.

Any citizen should be able to cast any informational poll they wish. Any citizen should be able to request an official poll from any Leader (with proper support).

Probably the reason I have never gotten into the practice of posting many polls is because of the original rule, way back when. I didn't like the rule then and I don't think your change should be put into effect now. So I can't come up with a specific poll or instance for an example, I can only present my practice of not indulging in polls because of the rule.

 

[Almightyjosh]

I just asked Cyc about a poll I wanted to run concerning where citizens live, he told me it was a matter for the domestic department, which is fine and what I expected. However, disorganiser, who is the 'census guy' is currently not available, so the poll can't be run . This is nobody's fault, but does that mean the poll will just not happen??

 

[Shaitan]

Not at all. It'll get run one way or another. Under the current rules, simply post the poll request in the Domestic Department thread. If 2 other citizens support the poll request the Dom Leader must post the poll. (A leader will generally post the poll without requiring the additional 2 citizens to voice up.)

The New Constitutution is currently in Council Vote. When that is approved you will be able to post the poll yourself regardless.

 

[Cyc]

I said no such thing. I informed him that the Census Dept. collected and displayed the info he wanted to collect with a poll, and that he should talk to Dis.

 

[Shaitan]

Gotcha, Cyc. I caught that in the Domestic thread after I'd replied here.

 

[disorganizer]

@josh: you could download the excel-file out of the census discussion+statistics thread. if you just want the numbers, you can directly get them from the thread in plain-text, too.