Integrating/Improving Navigable Rivers

[rightfuture]

Integrating Navigable Rivers

Okay, Since Mouthwash so graciously started to implement this idea, I'm going to Babe Ruth this and hold him (and everyone else) accountable,at least for ongoing discussion.

Update:

-Implemented Strategic Rivers.

Moderator Action: Strategic Rivers Mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=1164237

Navigable Rivers in C2C
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=455291
forum for development

I probably am just dreaming here. One big thing I always wanted was navigable rivers. I really would like to see small boats being able to use them. I would prefer a middle range of water in between like back in Civ 3. So having 3 types of sea terrain. Shallow, Mid, and Deep. Then as well using the rivers.

I know the issue of the art for units sitting on the river, but I am suggesting that by altering the art of certain units for rivers it could possibly be made to look ok. I would really like to have a beginning period where rivers and shallow water can only be used. It would be a logical progression in a prehistory period.
Anyway just thought I would see if I just get a thumbs down or not.

Do we have --Canals-- yet?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168895&highlight=navigable+rivers

Rivers, a natural trade-route.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=406250&highlight=navigable+rivers

Complete overhaul of river system
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=386766&highlight=navigable+rivers

River blockade?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=374950&highlight=navigable+rivers

Rivers between tiles? I think not!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=337771&highlight=navigable+rivers

2 Major faults in Civ System
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=357347&highlight=navigable+rivers

Major and minor rivers
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=333744&highlight=navigable+rivers

Workboats and Bridges
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=330619&highlight=navigable+rivers

River movement
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=333404&highlight=navigable+rivers

Navigable Rivers?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=337707&highlight=navigable+rivers

Forts = canals???
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=227291&highlight=navigable+rivers
Maybe canals should be re-purposed forts?

so this is not exactly an unpopular issue.

Challenge, baring any limitations to making this a priority(not saying) right now:
What do you think would be the best way to improve rivers in C2C, and get Navigable and Strategic Rivers into C2C?

What are your thoughts! Yes, you!
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Thunderbrd]

It's always been a part of the plan to include this in C2C at some point but it has not been able to take a center stage on any given developer's platform and that's just stemming from the limits of having finite developers with finite time. I've never doubted we'll do this eventually. Since its not on any immediate agenda for me I haven't thrown much thought in except to say that my one criticism of the Navigable rivers mod is that I feel cities should be able to go ON river tiles rather than have to be shunted off so far away from the river to be next to one.

 

[Koshling]

I dislike the compromises it implies graphically (very wide rivers [full tile], or units 'on' rivers being arbitrarily one side or the other.

 

[Thunderbrd]

The unit issue of 'river crossing' and its normal affect needs to be somehow considered into the mechanism yes.

I've also thought that this implies there should be two, or even three, sizes of rivers, the first, Small Rivers, traveling down between tiles as the rivers currently do and being more of what is found closer to the source, then as rivers combine they grow into a Medium river and those become navigable and move down the middle of the tile (but the river isn't all that wide graphically and may be crossed by land units and cities may be placed there.) Then some rivers still may become Large where the graphics widen, land units can't step onto the tile and cities next to the tile are considered 'on a river'.

Land units may need to effectively consider themselves to be on one side of the river or another I think. Could be tricky but could be done similar to the way its been considered for controlling unit 'depth' for underwater navigation.

 

[Rasma]

well if you made the one tile rivers their own terrain type, couldn't you make them fordable by ground units, perhaps with a damage per turn without the amphibious promotion when dangerous terrain is on. And if you do something like this, it would give iron clads a new found purpose, also gun boats and the like.

 

[Mouthwash]

First, you should clarify that I haven't actually implemented this. Second, it should be pretty easy to, assuming that A) movement restrictions are removed (we can put them back in as an option at a later time), B) the delta, hill, and river junction graphics in StrategicRivers are fixed, and C) it is decided whether or not boats can cross into a neighboring river tile that isn't connected to river it is currently in (I vote no due to complications and counter-intuitive gameplay). That's all. It's really nothing complicated.

 

[GT Ranma]

it is decided whether or not boats can cross into a neighboring river tile that isn't connected to river it is currently in (I vote no due to complications and counter-intuitive gameplay)..

I would say, make a button that says 'Portage' and have it cost a full turn.

Civilizations have been doing it for a long long time.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I suppose one who's not a dll modder would have little basis to grasp the enormous implications to the AI of such a change. There would be nothing 'easy' about any of it.

 

[Mouthwash]

I suppose one who's not a dll modder would have little basis to grasp the enormous implications to the AI of such a change. There would be nothing 'easy' about any of it.

The AI in SR understands the changes. Couldn't you use at least some of the coding from that?

 

[Thunderbrd]

The AI in SR understands the changes. Couldn't you use at least some of the coding from that?

I haven't looked at their AI coding but I can say from trying to port in more simple things that C2C's AI structure is already a far cry from Vanilla so it would very likely take a lot more thought to how and where to merge that AI in.

Furthermore, even if it were simple, there's so many goals on the plate at the moment that it'll be a while before I think any of us could get to this. Its not that we don't want to or that its particularly more complicated than other goals, just that it came in as an objective long after many other goals had been established.