Intercontinental Warfare

Temeraire

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
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8
Is intercontinental warfare feasible?

In my current (Noble I think game) I'm trying to knock some chunks off the French. They're the dominant power on the next continent. I've invaded twice with two full fleets of units, say stacks around 36 unit in size, and I've never managed to keep a city more than a single turn.

Is 36 units just not enough to invade another continent, or a the Frenchies just too well prepared and I should look for a softer target?
 
Without more information, it's hard to say. What type of units are you using? What type of units are you fighting? How are you conducting the invasion? Are you sending in units all at once or as a trickle? How are you being defeated? Do you have naval dominance? Etc.

Posting screenshots or, better yet, a savegame will help as well.


Otherwise, all I can say is that yes, naval invasions are indeed quite feasible, provided that the war itself is doable. If you're fighting an opponent that is strong both militarily and technologically, then having to do over the seas will make it that much harder.
 
It's Infantry, Artillary and Cavalry time.
I have Naval Dominance, and I'm dropping units into friendly territory, then moving them up to the target city. In short, I'm pumping mostly infantry and Artillery in about a 2/1 ratio into a single enemy city, that he then just wipes out, using Artillery and SAM Infantry. Getting any more troops there would take forever.

Should I just leaving it longer? Have twice as many troops?
 
If he has a ton of artillery there is very little you can do. He can move his units from across his empire much faster, and a stack of 4-5 artillery followed by some mop-up units will wipe out your weakened invasion force everytime.

If he has coastal cities you could try bringing a large stack of frigates to bombard his base defenses down to zero, followed by an attack from land. Then pump the city full of healty units from your navy, including a medic II unit. Sounds like you also might just need more units.
 
I'm going to assume you have military size parity as well. Check your demographics screen and use spies if you don't know.

Build a strong force of machine guns to defend your holdings, that should help you weather artillery counterattacks. After you take your first city, hold that position and wage a war of attrition; let the enemy exhaust their forces. If you're still losings cities that way, you need to send in more machine guns and other defensive units. A handful won't cut it.

And don't be afraid to build more units. Remember, if brute force isn't working, you're not using enough.
 
Mabye you should beeline for flight, build airports in major production centres and airlift healthy units in every turn once you take one of their cities of course.
 
Keep the Armada moving. Don't load up 40 units and ship them overseas and then wait for the transports to come back and reload. Keep building transports and send a constant stream of reinforcements after the main invasion; there should be at least one loaded transport going over every turn until someone cries uncle. Get to Flight ASAP; airpower helps you secure your beachhead cities, airports let you reinforce them, and carriers keep the advance moving. And like the previous post said, don't neglect garrison troops and stack defenders; lots of Drill MGs. Have fun.

PS: If your French opp is Louis, do me a favor and pound him into dust. He knows why.
 
I'll second the suggestions for a Flight beeline. If you find yourself conducting moderate to serious warfare by the time infantry and artillery roll in, making a concentrated effort to nab Flight will help you immensely.
 
You mentioned something about friendly territory. I assume this is an ally. Have you tried bribing him to join the war? The French might waste some of their power on them, allowing you to take cities.
 
:agree:

If at all possible, get him to attack someone else (or vice versa) for 5 or 6 turns so they crash stacks together, *then* attack.

If that isn't possible, the flight beeline is very powerful.

Taking things past flight, a couple gunships to cut roads leading to your newly acquired city isn't a bad idea, either - if he can't get troops to it in one turn, he can't take it in one turn. That allows you to rebase 4 bombers to your new city so you can smash up at least one stack coming your way.
 
The (obvious) key to overseas warfare is to limit casualties, because your supply chain is rather long. Don't rush into capturing enemy cities. They are a liability and if you do have naval superiority than your transport fleet makes a better regrouping/healing point than any captured enemy city ever would. Soften up your enemy before taking any cities.

Try to only engage the enemy from positions where they are not likely to counterattack en masse and where when they do attack they will take disproportionate losses. You want to make the enemy attack your stack FIRST, in the open field, so you can soften up or even eliminate their "free radical" units and cut them down to only their garrisons.

What's worked for me in the past is to land my force inside enemy territory, in a defensible position away from the enemy's major cities. Landing near or trying to take any of your opponent's key cities, tempting as it might be, WILL result in a massive and immediate counterattack that will likely overwhelm your stack. If you land somewhere in the opponent's backwater territory or near one of their mid-range cities, their response will most likely be much more limited- even with a maniac like Monty (yes I have used this strategy against Monty). Nevertheless, you want to make sure you land someplace where the enemy WILL be able to reach you and attack you.

Scout the enemy's coast- look for a nice hill right on the shore, with forest if you can (probably not any option in your timeframe), and next to a river is ideal. But, take whatever cover you can get. You will get artillery thrown at you and take some losses, but all you are trying to achieve at this point is disproportionate losses.

Most likely if your opponent is as serious a threat as we excpected, you will want to retreat back to your transports after one round and heal up. Make sure you have at least one medic transport in your fleet. With any luck, you have already damaged the enemy force through your defense and now you can recover your force and land again in a few turns once your units are fresh. The opponent at this point has either a smaller force to throw at you or he has whipped or rushed a bunch of units out. In either case, you have weakened the fighting capability of your opponent and if you keep at it you should win.

If you do still have a number of healthy units in your stack, leave them on the hill to fortify. The enemy will likely throw another attack at you next round but your units will have some fortify bonus at this point so you'll be even better prepared. Although tempting, DO NOT chase after any damaged remaining attacker units in the surrounding tiles unless you are using cavalry/gunships and you are prepared to defend the tile you landed on and/or the tile you're moving to. The benefit you got from landing away from the enemy's big cities was not getting their entire free radical force thrown at you in one round. But since the enemy kept more units in reserve the first turn, you should expect the second round attack to be as strong as the first round attack. That's why this is supposed to be a hit and run. They've already had losses and we want to keep our losses to a few or none. So it's best to simply get out while you're ahead and come back in a few turns.

The counterattacks will get less and less powerful as your opponent's pool of available units draws down. Then you can either start moving toward the nearest city, pillaging along the way, or you can go back to your ships and relocate to attack the city of your choice, knowing that the opponent now has decidedly fewer available counterattacking units.

I'm sure this depends on the difficulty level you play at and maybe even which game version- I play Noble on Warlords.

I also agree with the previous posters that machine guns are a vital component of any landing party in the era you are fighting. My only other advice is to make a bee-line for Industrialism and pump out some marines. :goodjob:
 
Artillery is very, very powerful in Civ4. You have to keep spread out stacks of about 4 units each to avoid collateral damage. Yet, at the same time this single them out and makes them weak to focused crushing.

In my mod, I weakened collateral damage so it only hits 1-2 other units at most.
 
Let me agree with a couple suggestions here, specifically the ones about the intitial attack. I've got not much to add (given my experiences at this point) about the reinforcements. The Airport thing works great, but you can only fly one unit at a time, which might not help much if you are losing cities back to massive counter attacks as you described.

First, it is VERY helpful to get somebody else in the vicinity to delcare war on your target. It serves many purposes, but in this case, it helps both soften up the target as well as force troop movement that has nothing to do with your offensive. At best, you can get the two of them to throw stacks at each other before you hit the beaches. At worst, you give the enemy logistics problems that should make it more difficult for it to launch an effective counterstrike.

Second, hitting a well defended area of the enemy is probably not the best plan when the opponent is your equal technology-wise. It's a lot easier to smack around the less developed, and probably less desirable cities first. It many not seem like a giant success to pick off a couple tundra cities with your massive army, but you'll give yourself a much better chance of defending these cities and soundly defeating the counter attacks this way. You can safetly heal here, land fresh troops here, fly in fresh troop here, station bombers here, and eventually stage a quality ground war from here.

Third, in a kind of combination with the first two ideas, if you've got the forces to do this, hit the enemy continent in two places. For example, if you were attacking North America, land stacks in San Diego and in Anchorage. Both are far away from the industrial, and probably troop laden east coast, and it serves to cause logistic problems with where to send the counter attacking troops.
 
I've invaded twice with two full fleets of units, say stacks around 36 unit in size, and I've never managed to keep a city more than a single turn.

"When in doubt, use fire." If you think the enemy is going to recapture the city you just took, burn it down. The French won't be able to produce any more huge armies when they don't have any cities left.
 
SCORCHED EARTH

I assume you have an adequate industrial base on your home continent... what need do you have of his cities on his continent? If you have an ally or a few friendly cities on his continent, that will suffice to airlift units-in once you have flight, negating the need for the long transport chain.

Your main problem is having to hold-up and defend cities you just conquered (losing them right back to the enemy). Burn, Rape, Pillage and burn again... raze them to the ground! He can't take-back what isn't there. If you have a solid industrial base at home, just burn his cities to the ground as you conquer them... I assure you he won't have much of an industrial base to counter you for long if you adopt this strategy, and there's nothing for him to retake from you (freeing you from garrison duty as well).
 
I assume you have an adequate industrial base on your home continent... what need do you have of his cities on his continent? If you have an ally or a few friendly cities on his continent, that will suffice to airlift units-in once you have flight, negating the need for the long transport chain.

Your main problem is having to hold-up and defend cities you just conquered (losing them right back to the enemy). Burn, Rape, Pillage and burn again... raze them to the ground! He can't take-back what isn't there. If you have a solid industrial base at home, just burn his cities to the ground as you conquer them... I assure you he won't have much of an industrial base to counter you for long if you adopt this strategy, and there's nothing for him to retake from you (freeing you from garrison duty as well).

To me, scorched earth on a distant continent is only a good strategy if:
-There are only 2 civs still in the game (you and your opponent)
OR
-Your aim is a quick resolution through a lopsided peace treaty.

In most instances when pursuing scorched earth you will still be the one bleeding units, and yet you are simply ceding any potential gains to the other civs on the continent- who are sure to jump in with their own settlers while you are still fighting. You will weaken one opponent only to strengthen others.

The extra cities might not be "needed" but in the end those cities translate into both population and land and therefore into score and even potential domination victory. To my thinking you should never just give that away to another civ (ally or not) when with a little more planning and effort and a few extra units you can keep it to yourself.
 
What's better to have, a size-20 city producing tons of gold, culture, research and units... or a size-1 city with nothing in it?

Simply put... scorched earth destroys production, culture & research... three things not easily replaced by a size-1 newly founded city.

Scorched Earth is the best way to send your opponent back into the stone age... he's not going to beat you militarily, he's not going to reach Alpha Centari first, and he's not going to out-tech you if all his cities are size-1 restarted cities.
 
^ I still agree with this. It's simple attrition. Burn down a few of his production centers, and he won't be able to replace his troops as fast. Unless he divides his forcer to attack your production centers, then your troop replacement will be unaffected. That eventually puts you in a position to just wear him down.
 
SCORCHED EARTH
If you have an ally or a few friendly cities on his continent, that will suffice to airlift units-in once you have flight, negating the need for the long transport chain.

Can you airlift units into an ally's cities? I know it's possible to do so with your vassals, but I thought you couldn't do it with simple friends.

I do agree with the scorched earth strategy though. Combine it with amphibious attacks, and only one unit will ever enter his lands for every city. Just make sure it's an easily replaced green unit. You will most likely lose a lot of cannons/artillery on amphibious suicide attacks though, so be prepared for that.

And yes another Civ might build some size 1 cities... So what? It's either another civ, who will run into enough culture problems with the previous inhabitants to make the cities irrelevant (which size 1 cities are anyway in late game). Or the same civ which you most likely severely crippled will take them. If you crippled him enough, he will no longer be a risk, so let him have his size 1 cities.
 
I don't know about war allies (defensive pacts etc.) but you can't airlift into random friendly cities. Which is what I had, you can base air unit there though.

Thanks for all the suggestions, I did manage to take and hold a French city, after tech-ing past them, unfortunately Louis went on to win a cultural victory just as I was preparing to launch my next wave, where I probably would have done a period of scorching.
 
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