IOT Developmental Thread

[SouthernKing]

Originally, I was just going to edit the last post but I went off-topic from that post.

The number one problem with moving units on the map is GM management. Needless to say, most IOTs don't need armies moving on the map to be effective. RIOT, IOTVI, Iron and Blood, Tropico, and many other IOTs didn't require units to be placed physically on the map and those got along just fine. There are a few problems with pooling armies.

1.) Ultimate Defense. I'm going to use Khitan from RIOT as an example. Needless to say, there was no realistic weakspot anywhere in Khitan's Armed Forces because they had so many of them. These army units can defend any place and the only two realistic ways to beat Khitan in this case would be either a dozen coordinated strikes everywhere to divide their forces or nuclear war. The problem with this line of thinking is that there is no reason why attacking Khitan China should be just as difficult as attacking Khitan Israel. After all, Khitan sent hundreds of it's armies into the Middle East but now these troops are able to defend in China at whim?

2.) Less Strategy Involved. Let's take Khitan as an example again. Say that they had 300 armies and I attack them along three territories that my country borders with a 100 armies each. Now, let's say I'm using the middle army to blitz. Besides the ungodly number of dice rolls (which are less of a problem), there's less meaning in "breakthroughs". Say that the 100 v. 100 battles were to the death and there's a blitz. What happens is that the middle army can simply charge through and probably get a lot of territory for free since, for some reason, armies don't pull back. However, say that units do pull back, then is it really a breakthrough? I figure the GM could add and explain the mechanics behind all of this (including the inevitable math) or simply make units something to be placed on the map.

Yes, blitz could have a limit on them but it shouldn't take several years to charge through a territory after you broke through front lines? I suppose if you take supply lines into account but again, armies on the map are still better for that.

3.) No Grand Strategy. IOTs where buildings are placed in territories go nearly hand-in-hand with IOTs where units are placed on the map. Especially if said buildings are just forts and fortifications. When armies are pooled on a map with a large number of provinces, fortifications mean nothing. What's the point of building the Maginot Line can shift his entire ARMY to going through Belgium one turn and then go on the defense and hold at the border, despite having shift his entire army into Belgium last turn? It's one thing to use your armies to assist an ally in a war. It's another thing when your armies will still be over there the next turn. Another thing further if you have to get your forces there in force in the first place.

Units/Defenses on the map+Zone of Control is great for Grand Strategy on a large province count map like the RIOT map. ZoC isn't require on smaller maps like Iron and Blood and Cold War.

What does pooled armies have going for it.

1 (and only).) Simplicity

Yes but simplicity makes it easier for GMs. IOTs often die because of lack of proper GMing, usually to to lack of time or extreme complexity.

 

[Omega124]

Wouldn't most of the corpses be incinerated by the nuclear war?

In which case, the scenario works....for about two weeks still.

No point in trying to aim for anything approaching sense in a Zombie IOT. Just go with it.

You're right. But I caused a 2 page debate just for posting an idea, and I think that i san appropiatie time to get defensive.

Also, Light, Cracked is a humor sight. Here is a similar article they wrote, but with can't turn to could

 

[Sonereal]

Yes but simplicity makes it easier for GMs. IOTs often die because of lack of proper GMing, usually to to lack of time or extreme complexity.

True.

 

[Tani Coyote]

I think I'll put armies in a pool/make navies pool as well. It reduces management.

Armies just fight until they're all used up; their quality/quantity is up to the player nation.

Navies would probably not see use unless you're invaded, in which case, they'll be called in to intercept the invasion fleet. If you repel the invasion, troops don't land. If you don't, well... on to land combat!

The issue with navies is if they can go halfway around the world in a turn. But, if we use a Colonial Era or later IOT, this isn't a problem as it becomes more realistic.

 

[NedimNapoleon]

IOT World of Trade​

Rules:

Starting: You make a nation and pick 6 territories. The territories must be on one continent, exceptions are Spain and North Africa, Balkans and Turkey, European Russia and Asian Russia and Egypt and Suez. No stupid nations, description will be necessary, and pick a religion and government type.You will have to have the following basic description stuff.
Name
Flag
Government type
Religion
Royal Dynasty - will explain later

Roleplaying:It will be encouraged and rewarded, only realistic RP. It will massively impact your stability.

Expansion: XP are used for expanding, 4 per turn

Economy and Trade: MP (money points) is the main "currency". Each territory gives you 0.5 MP from taxes. Your realms will have a "Trade center". you can place it any ware in your nation, be advised to put them in a coastal province and a strait, I'll explain that later. You only get one TC, all of your trade will go through it. Their are 3 levels of trade centers, they will be explained in the Upgrades and tech. Resources will be vital to your economy. Trade will be managed by me,but you must put your new trade agreements in the your claims and beginning posts. Trade can be disrupted, Naval blockades on a coastal TC will block 50% of trade, that means that half of your trade agreements will be "suspended", not canceled but suspended, this means that you don't get the resource you bought and neither does your trade partner get the resources you sold to him. Naval blockades can also be enforced via straits, example, NationA has Istanbul (straits), NationBs Trade center is in the black sea, NationA can close the straits and cutting of NationBs trade by 50% and the straits can only be open by taking it with an army or by diplomacy. Nations with straits have the right to impose taxes on other nations that use the straits to get to their TC. As I mentioned its better to have a coastal TC because you will be able to trade with countries you don't have a land border, while inland TC can only trade with bordering countries. Tech also has an impact on trade, you need a certain tech lvl to trade with Asia (if your from Europe) and a certain to trade with Africa (again if your from Europe). A trade agreement doesn't represent all of your trade between resources, just 1 resource with 1 resource (or MP) so you can have alot of trade agreements and I would be delighted if you could add all of your trade agreements to your begging posts, after every update, thanks in advanced. I forgot to mention you can trade resources for MP.

Colonies: Colonies can be established after certain tech's. Colonies do not produce MP but they do give you valuable trade resources, to setup a colony it takes 2 XPs and 5 MPs. Any province on another continent and not linked to your provinces with land are considered colonies

Buildings:
Trade Center I - costs 5MP, allows 5 trade agreements
Trade Center II - costs 20 MP, allows 10 trade agreements
Trade Center III - costs 50 MP, allows limitless trade agreements
Armory - costs 15 MP, Increases combat chance by 10%
Armory II - costs 20 MP, Increases combat chance by 15%
Armory III - costs 25 MP, Increases combat chance by 20%
Library - costs 30 MP, reduces research cost by 20%

Resources:
You saw the pic of them. Not all resources have bonuses but your people will desire something and you must get it for them.
Salt - Allows the support of 3 Armies and 2 Navies
Cotton - People will seek it
Wool - People will seek it
Sulfur - Needed for tech
Silver - +1 MP
Gold - +2MP
Iron - Needed for tech
Glass - People will seek it
Cloth - People will seek it
Wood - Needed for tech
Beef - People will seek it
Fruit - Allows the support of 5 Navies
Grain - Allows the support of 5 Armies
Tea - People will seek it
Coffee - People will seek it
Opium - People will seek it, really seek it
Wine - People will seek it
Slaves - Double the production of cash crops (Coffee,Opium,Tea)
Spices - People will seek it
Chinaware - People will seek it
Fur - People will seek it
Incense - People will seek it

People will seek it.... That means you will get missions (events), where you must get some resources, if you don't bad stuff will happen.

Tech:
Maritime I - allows trade with closest continent via sea, 30 MP
|
Maritime II - allows trade with farthest continent via sea, 60 MP
|
Maritime III - needs wood Something spectacular, 250 MP

Army I - needs Iron, +10% army 20 MP
|
Army II - needs Sulfur, gunpowder effect reviled later 50 MP

Colonial I - allows colonization of closest continent, 35 MP
|
Colonial II - allows colonization of farthest continent, 70 MP
|
Colonial III - needs Maritime III, 300 MP

Armies:
Armies cost 2 MP to raise and grain to support.Combat works in the following way. Its calculated by a RNG Generator , the formula. Armies are pooled
(RNG+NA+RP)+X%

NA - Number of Armies
RP - Roleplaying grade (You will Roleplay one battle and I will decide who did it better,
and the winner gets 30 points, it is not necessary)
X% - percentage bonus from tech and resource

Navies
Navies are not pooled, 4 MP to raise and 4 Fruit to support. You will move fleets to oceans to do blockades, sea battles pretty much like land battles

Infamy:
Your war must be justified, if its not it gives you infamy, infamy at peace every update goes down 1. If the infamy goes above 20 any nation can declare war on you with no infamy gain

Holy War: Must be different religion 0 infamy if the war is won, 30 if its lost

Territorial gain: 10 infamy for starting it, 20 if you dont get that province

Trade war: To enforce loan paybacks and trade 20 infamy cost, no infamy cost if you lose


Dynasty and Nobility
Events and your stability will effect your "Dynasty". Dynasties are just tools that help you control something. You are allowed at max three royal marriages. You will manage that, lets say someone drops out of the game. You and another player have a royal marriage with a the player that drops out, you both want to inherit his lands and Dynasty wars start, infamy free. Nobility will be the snoby society they will demand lots of stuff. If you don't provide them with the stuff they want they may revolt, some provinces may become independent or join another faction. Roleplay will also have an impact on this.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

NEED A LIST OF PLAYERS

 

[SouthernKing]

Hmmm..sounds interesting. Count me in.

 

[Double A]

Idea for zombie IOT: turn time back 1500 years, change "zombies" to "barbarians"

I think casting a vote on this topic may help designers a bit:

Question 1: Do you prefer armies being located on the map and having to be moved physically(automatically by GM in accordance with orders of course), or prefer they be in a pool?

Question 2: Do you prefer armies being a set number (i.e. the classic 5 attacks per turn) or where you can enlarge/shrink the armies?

1) I prefer them to be on the map. However, if the game has an utterly ridiculous amount of provinces, I will excuse pools.
2) enlarge/shrink armies. When was the last time we had 5 attacks per turn?

 

[Sonereal]

Idea for zombie IOT: turn time back 1500 years, change "zombies" to "barbarians"



1) I prefer them to be on the map. However, if the game has an utterly ridiculous amount of provinces, I will excuse pools.
2) enlarge/shrink armies. When was the last time we had 5 attacks per turn?

IOTVI.

 

[MaxaTheGreat]

Had an interesting idea for an IOT.

What if we started in the ancient age, and after 3 turns everyone automatically declared war on everyone else? I might work on this after IOT:AoD, but for now, you can do whatever with the idea.

 

[Sonereal]

Had an interesting idea for an IOT.

What if we started in the ancient age, and after 3 turns everyone automatically declared war on everyone else? I might work on this after IOT:AoD, but for now, you can do whatever with the idea.

That....wouldn't be fun. Auto-declarations? Bah.

Plus, most people wouldn't even bother with the war.

 

[mythmonster2]

Eh, what the heck. Count me in for WoT.

 

[Double A]

I think I said when the map was first posted that I wanted to play.

 

[ilduce349]

count me in.

 

[MaxaTheGreat]

Count me in too. Looks more awesome than I thought it would be.

 

[ilduce349]

so now that thats done can you please finish the map for my IOT?
Thank you
Ilduce

 

[Turquoiside]

@Nedim: My schedule is finally open so I'll be in WoT

In other news, I'm busy writing the opening posts for my IOT (still called 'VII' until further reasons are given it shouldn't be) and it should be ready by tomorrow, but possibly by tonight. I intend to finally launch a small period of time after WoT ends.

 

[GamezRule]

I will join WoT.

 

[NedimNapoleon]

Ilduce Im finishing your map I just have a few cities in Europe and India and every city in N. America, I'll post it later, when I get back from school.

Nice I have a lot of players, starting it tomorrow updates go from Saturday-Wednesday-Saturday, to keep up with my schedule.

 

[Tee Kay]

Nedim: looks great. Put me down as an "in".

What does pooled armies have going for it.

1 (and only).) Simplicity

Don't dismiss this. Simplicity is a huge thing. Not only can it mean much less work for the GM and less things for often time-strapped players to keep track of, but it can also translate to more flexibility, both in terms of gameplay and roleplaying. And for IOTs like Iron and Blood where a turn represent many years in real time, pooled armies makes more sense than putting them on a map.

The shortcomings of pooled armies can be partly overcome by other game mechanisms or roleplaying, or otherwise rendered superfluous (as in your example of ZoC on small maps). And sometimes a perceived flaw can add to the game in other ways. A system that inherently favors the defender can encourage the formation of alliances and greater coordination between players in war, for instance.

 

[ilduce349]

Ilduce Im finishing your map I just have a few cities in Europe and India and every city in N. America, I'll post it later, when I get back from school.

Nice I have a lot of players, starting it tomorrow updates go from Saturday-Wednesday-Saturday, to keep up with my schedule.

thank you