IOT Developmental Thread

[Ailedhoo]

1.) Conscripts defend neutral territories. Hence a 66% chance of successful claim with one army, lower as blitz goes longer.

2.) You can get rid of the "if you have no factories, you're limited to one army" rule. That was added before conscripts and I forgot to move it.

3.)



You mean EP.

4.) Your spy teams mechanic is a major step back, requires more player-end tracking, and is less freeform from the system that already exists, and that even MP4 is using as well.

5.) Fomatting

6.) About your VM, well, err....

The Excel Sheet I'm using doesn't use this ruleset anymore. The economy had been consolidated to be province-less for ease of record keeping and trade now uses importing/exporting, not [Global Domestic EP/100]. Stability is also now a modifier that reduces a region's economic output, which is Factories*(Stability/10).

In other words, the economic output of a region is Factories*(Stability/10) and economic output of the country is Regional Incomes+(Exports-Imports).

Supply Limit is also now Total Factories/5 since expansion and factories were rolled up into one stat now.

Ok. Thank you!

I will take this in account when revising the rules and correcting the mistakes.

Thank you again Sone!

 

[JohannaK]

Where can one find resource icons small enough to post on maps?

You could make your own... or commission them to somebody, given a desired size.

 

[Mosher]

You could make your own... or commission them to somebody, given a desired size.

Well, I would love if someone could give me resource icons for:

Coal
Iron
Grain
Sulphur
Timber
Precious metals
Cotton
Tea/coffee
Wool

And have them fit on the Iron & Blood 2 map.

 

[Sonereal]

Look up World of Trade by Nedim, it had some of those resource icons.

 

[NedimNapoleon]

ITS HAPPENING!

 

[JohannaK]

There, I made ones that would fit almost any map:

Only wool and cotton are susceptible to confusion, but I didn't know what to do for wool.

 

[Mosher]

Danke

 

[Terrance888]

Use sheep for wool?

 

[JohannaK]

But sheep is not wool! Good idea nevertheless.

EDIT: Here, better styled grain and precious metals icons, and wool is now represented by sheep.

 

[christos200]

SHOGUN IOT

Japan, 1865

War is raging between the Emperor of Japan and the Shogun. Both fight to unite Japan and expel the Barbarians. Thousands have already died. Now, it is time for a Daimyo to rise and end this war. Maybe, it is the time that you, all powerful Daimyo, should try to end the war, unite Japan and gain eternal glory!

Spoiler :

Coming soon...........

 

[Tyo]

Development update.

Spoiler :

Each country will have a population. This population is multiplied by unique effects to give your country a manpower pool. This manpower pool is the amount of your country’s population you can put to work in the military and in government-owned industries. Manpower can be anywhere from 1-100% of the population, dependent on previously stated unique affects. The rest of the population that isn’t under Manpower is pretty much doing the same thing as manpower working on industry, but there is quite the dynamic in industrial manpower versus industrial population, but we will get to that in a moment. Just remember that manpower grows with population and can only be increased, without influence of the population, by the effects mentioned at the top that I promise will be explained later.

Next is your country’s Industrial Base. As the name suggests, it is your capacity to produce. Industrial Base is worked by your population and your manpower. Economies that rely more on the civilian population for the production of goods will find that passive industrial growth is increased. The economy relies more on private businesses to run, thus competition urges more industrial growth. Economies that rely more on manpower will find passive growth lacking, but this is made up for with the fact that manpower works more efficiently. While these economies don’t grow as fast passively they essentially have their industrial capacity multiplied (not in a game-breaking way, but multiplied nonetheless.)

How much of your industrial base your country can use is determined by resources, infrastructure, and stability. If any of these get low, you will find your industry will collapse.

Resources are what's needed to produce materials in any industry. You'll need a certain amount of resources per unit of industrial capacity to run it. Note that resources are used in other parts of economic management, so dedicating all resources to have the largest industry possible isnt neccessarily a good idea.

Infrastructure is basically how developed your country is. This rating goes from 1%-100%, and is basically multiplied directly to your industrial base to give you your industrial capacity. To get what you pay for in industrial base, infrastructure has to be at least 75% developed. Going higher will yield industrial benefits that won't require resources to run, increases resource gain, and would set a minimum stability rating that your country won't be able to go lower than so long as it's maintained. However, Infrastructure decays at a dynamic rate per turn and requires a mix of industrial capacity, monetary income, and resources to raise. It isn't raised by a static number based on how much of these you invest; you give a broad plan (the more detail the better), I'll put a price tag on it, and your infrastructure could go up by a varying amount dependent on how much of your economy and effort you put into it. Investments into infrastructure is a gamble; it isn't guaruntee to automattically increase it by 20% or aoe thing.

Stability is your population's approval of you. It controls both how willing your people are to work and how much they are willing to revolt. A bad stability could lower your industrial capacity by as much as 75%. Stability can only be raised indirectly; good management, events, and similar can raise it, and the opposite of these can lower it.

Monetary income is obtained by a combination of other parts of your economy, plus trade. Money is used to find scientific endeavors, infrastructure projects, fund your military, trade with others, or find your private sector in an attempt to stimulate economic expansion.

Any suggestions? All opinions are welcomed (and in fact demanded).

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

I like the suggestion that manpower (Socialist?) economic structure is more stable than the typical free-market model that seems to always be the go-to in recent games.

 

[Mosher]

I've been having some thoughts on a more industrially and trade minded IOT, set in the early 19th century. All I have right now are joining, the map, and the basis of an industry ruleset. I apologize for the lack of formatting.

Joining: Pick whether or not you would like to be a great power, secondary power, civilized nation, or uncivilized nation. I will determine, in the long run, who gets what, but this will give me a general outline of who wants what. The total number of great/secondary powers will be determined on how many people are playing the game.

Great powers start off being able to choose 3 home provinces and 2 colonies. They start off with a higher than average tech, but with higher stability costs to boot. They will also have a larger military.

Secondary powers start off with just 3 home provinces but have lower stability costs to make up for it. They can choose to either start off with Great Power level tech or Great Power level military (in terms of size).

Civilized Nation - Starts off with two home provinces, average tech and a small military.

Uncivilized Nation - Starts off with 1-4 home provinces, determined by a dice roll. The larger a number of provinces they start off with, the higher their stability costs. They start off with a large, but backwards, military and low tech.

Provinces: Each province has a base manpower rating (5 for Europe, 7 for Asia, 2 for North Africa (5 for Egypt), 4 for West Africa, 4 for Sub-Saharan Africa, 3 for South America, 3 for North America, 1 for Australia, 1 for Siberia, each province will have their manpower listed in the province stats worksheet, but this is here now to give you a rough idea of how it'll work) along with a base resource output.

Home province - Acts pretty much like a core province. It's a province integral to your nation, populated by your culture. They produce 2x the resource base, give a 20% defensive bonus, a 50% manpower multiplier, can host 5 factories and train tier 2 infantry/cavalry.

Secondary province - A province not populated by your culture, but speaks your language and largely describes themselves as being part of your nation (though there could be many nationalists amongst them, too!) They produce the resource base, no defensive bonus (asides from terrain), a 25% manpower multiplier, can host 3 factories and cannot train tier 2 infantry/cavalry. +15% stability costs

Colonies - A province administered by your nation mostly for prestige and profit, they produce a hefty amount of resources in exchange for having a relatively angry populace. They produce 4x the resource base, 0% defensive bonus (asides from terrain), 25% manpower multiplier, no factories and cannot train tier 2 infantry/cavalry or any artillery. +10% stability cost per colony.

Occupied provinces - 0x the resource base, -25% defensive bonus (asides from terrain), no factories, cannot train units. +10% stability cost. 1 unit must watch over an occupied province to keep partisans from rising up. These provinces start with a 20% revolt risk, which increases by 5% each turn of occupation until the war ends.

Resources & Factories:

There are several resources available for you to use to either sate your populace or fuel your war machine:
Coal
Iron
Grain
Sulphur
Timber
Precious metals
Cotton
Tea/coffee
Wool

Those are either used directly on your population (precious metals & tea/coffee), or in factories. This is the factory list:
Cement
Glass
Liquor
Canned Food
Small arms
Ammunition
Artillery
Clothes
Luxury clothes
Furniture
Wine
Explosives

Once I've thought this through a little more I'll have a chart listing the effects of raw materials and how they combine in factories and whatnot, but this is the rough draft I have for right now. Thoughts?

 

[Tyo]

I like the suggestion that manpower (Socialist?) economic structure is more stable than the typical free-market model that seems to always be the go-to in recent games.

The manpower dynamic is supposed to similar planned economics versus free market. Free markets are more dynamic and are more liable to spurts of both growth and failure. Planned economies are, obviously, more controlled and wouldn't be suseptable to massive degradation, especially so in regards to the effects of foreign markets on the economy (assuming your resources aren't heavily dependent on foreign markets, anyways.)

I'm currently trying to think of a way to simulate planned decentralised and state capitalist systems, but I'm starting to think that that would be doing too much and would mostly entail automation in decentralised systems which is not what I want to delve into.

 

[JohannaK]

I assume you noticed my reworking of the icons. I could try to do some for the factories... I love doing these things.

 

[Mosher]

I assume you noticed my reworking of the icons. I could try to do some for the factories... I love doing these things.

I'm thinking about putting it all on a province stats sheet, just to make things easier for me and my lack of skill with image editing

 

[Ailedhoo]

Right... I have adopted the spy system of New Revolution for my game and considered the additions as Sone suggested.

 

[Sonereal]

Spoiler :

Each country will have a population. This population is modified by a variable to determine manpower. This manpower pool is the amount of your country’s population you can put to work in the military and in government-owned industries. Manpower can be anywhere from 1-100% of the population. The rest of the population that isn’t under Manpower is pretty much doing the same thing as manpower working on industry.Just remember that manpower grows with population and can only be increased, without influence of the population, by the effects mentioned at the top that I promise will be explained later.

Spoiler :

Tried to cut the fluff on this, but the last line was untouchable. In any case, what is the point of government manpower on industry? It'd be easier for everyone just to assume pop can work government-owned industries anyway.

Next is your country’s Industrial Base. Industrial Base is worked by your population and your manpower. Economies that rely more on the civilian population for the production of goods will find that passive industrial growth is increased. The economy relies more on private businesses to run, thus competition urges more industrial growth. Economies that rely more on manpower will find passive growth lacking, but this is made up for with the fact that manpower works more efficiently. While these economies don’t grow as fast passively they essentially have their industrial capacity multiplied (not in a game-breaking way, but multiplied nonetheless.)

Not quite sure where this is coming from on the realism front. There are studies on how centrally-planned economies not only ran afoul of growth, but also actually effectiveness during peace time. In any case, this goes back to why not just assume that unused manpower and population work in factories and on farms? In Hears of Iron 3, manpower was largely just that, the amount of men available for recruitment.

How much of your industrial base your country can use is determined by resources, infrastructure, and stability. If any of these get low, you will find your industry will collapse.

Sounds right.

Resources are what's needed to produce materials in any industry. You'll need a certain amount of resources per unit of industrial capacity to run it. Note that resources are used in other parts of economic management, so dedicating all resources to have the largest industry possible isnt neccessarily a good idea.

Infrastructure is basically how developed your country is. This rating goes from 1%-100%, and is basically multiplied directly to your industrial base to give you your industrial capacity. To get what you pay for in industrial base, infrastructure has to be at least 75% developed. Going higher will yield industrial benefits that won't require resources to run, increases resource gain, and would set a minimum stability rating that your country won't be able to go lower than so long as it's maintained. However, Infrastructure decays at a dynamic rate per turn and requires a mix of industrial capacity, monetary income, and resources to raise. It isn't raised by a static number based on how much of these you invest; you give a broad plan (the more detail the better), I'll put a price tag on it, and your infrastructure could go up by a varying amount dependent on how much of your economy and effort you put into it. Investments into infrastructure is a gamble; it isn't guaruntee to automattically increase it by 20% or aoe thing.

Sounds like good ideas.

Monetary income is obtained by a combination of other parts of your economy, plus trade. Money is used to find scientific endeavors, infrastructure projects, fund your military, trade with others, or find your private sector in an attempt to stimulate economic expansion.

Right.

Joining: Pick whether or not you would like to be a great power, secondary power, civilized nation, or uncivilized nation. I will determine, in the long run, who gets what, but this will give me a general outline of who wants what. The total number of great/secondary powers will be determined on how many people are playing the game.

Great powers start off being able to choose 3 home provinces and 2 colonies. They start off with a higher than average tech, but with higher stability costs to boot. They will also have a larger military.

Secondary powers start off with just 3 home provinces but have lower stability costs to make up for it. They can choose to either start off with Great Power level tech or Great Power level military (in terms of size).

Civilized Nation - Starts off with two home provinces, average tech and a small military.

Uncivilized Nation - Starts off with 1-4 home provinces, determined by a dice roll. The larger a number of provinces they start off with, the higher their stability costs. They start off with a large, but backwards, military and low tech.

Depends on the ratio we get in game I suppose, but I feel like it would be easier for all parties involved if you ditched Uncivilized joining and left that to basic NPCs.

Provinces: Each province has a base manpower rating (5 for Europe, 7 for Asia, 2 for North Africa (5 for Egypt), 4 for West Africa, 4 for Sub-Saharan Africa, 3 for South America, 3 for North America, 1 for Australia, 1 for Siberia, each province will have their manpower listed in the province stats worksheet, but this is here now to give you a rough idea of how it'll work) along with a base resource output.

The agriculture capability of Southern China is distinct from the carrying capacity for humans in, say, the Gobi Desert. The Asian grouping is entirely too large, as are most of the groupings. I think you meant these as an average, but I wasn't sure by the last line.

Home province - Acts pretty much like a core province. It's a province integral to your nation, populated by your culture. They produce 2x the resource base, give a 20% defensive bonus, a 50% manpower multiplier, can host 5 factories and train tier 2 infantry/cavalry.

Secondary province - A province not populated by your culture, but speaks your language and largely describes themselves as being part of your nation (though there could be many nationalists amongst them, too!) They produce the resource base, no defensive bonus (asides from terrain), a 25% manpower multiplier, can host 3 factories and cannot train tier 2 infantry/cavalry. +15% stability costs

Would increase HP defense to 40% and Secondary to 20%.

Colonies - A province administered by your nation mostly for prestige and profit, they produce a hefty amount of resources in exchange for having a relatively angry populace. They produce 4x the resource base, 0% defensive bonus (asides from terrain), 25% manpower multiplier, no factories and cannot train tier 2 infantry/cavalry or any artillery. +10% stability cost per colony.

Occupied provinces - 0x the resource base, -25% defensive bonus (asides from terrain), no factories, cannot train units. +10% stability cost. 1 unit must watch over an occupied province to keep partisans from rising up. These provinces start with a 20% revolt risk, which increases by 5% each turn of occupation until the war ends.

Wouldn't the stability of home provinces be easier to raise than secondaries and colonies? I think the same for secondaries when compared to colonies. Occupied Territory having the same Stab Cost of Colonies, and lower than secondaries, doesn't make a whole lot sense. I also think you should tie in revolt risk with stab so you're not dealing with two variables. Just make initial stability of occupied territory low.

Resources & Factories:

There are several resources available for you to use to either sate your populace or fuel your war machine:
Coal
Iron
Grain
Sulphur
Timber
Precious metals
Cotton
Tea/coffee
Wool

Those are either used directly on your population (precious metals & tea/coffee), or in factories. This is the factory list:
Cement
Glass
Liquor
Canned Food
Small arms
Ammunition
Artillery
Clothes
Luxury clothes
Furniture
Wine
Explosives

Lot of resources.

Lots and lots of resources. Hopefully you automate this well.

 

[Mosher]

Depends on the ratio we get in game I suppose, but I feel like it would be easier for all parties involved if you ditched Uncivilized joining and left that to basic NPCs.

I can do that.

The agriculture capability of Southern China is distinct from the carrying capacity for humans in, say, the Gobi Desert. The Asian grouping is entirely too large, as are most of the groupings. I think you meant these as an average, but I wasn't sure by the last line.

Yes, it is an average. The numbers I have there are just a rough estimate of what to expect.

Would increase HP defense to 40% and Secondary to 20%.

Can do.

Wouldn't the stability of home provinces be easier to raise than secondaries and colonies? I think the same for secondaries when compared to colonies. Occupied Territory having the same Stab Cost of Colonies, and lower than secondaries, doesn't make a whole lot sense. I also think you should tie in revolt risk with stab so you're not dealing with two variables. Just make initial stability of occupied territory low.

I was thinking of having stability being spread out evenly across all of the territories, with each one adding stability costs depending on what it is. The rest I agree with.

Lot of resources.

Lots and lots of resources. Hopefully you automate this well.

Any tips on automation would be handy.

 

[Sonereal]

I was thinking of having stability being spread out evenly across all of the territories, with each one adding stability costs depending on what it is. The rest I agree with.

I would peg real stability to core territory stability and make everything else simply a subsidiary of it. Not matter what, a colony or secondary territory wouldn't have a stability of 10. Could make it so STs are ~15% less than real while colonies are 30% and occupied is 50%.

Any tips on automation would be handy.

No idea. I try to keep these things to three or four input resources, which is the killer. Output resources aren't that big an issue as far as I know, but I haven't done that many tests on it.