Is anyone else tired of good games and franchises getting bad sequels?

[Thorvald of Lym]

Seems as insane and time travel-ridden as ever...

I think I can summarize thus: Red Alert was a subtle type of humour. RA2 was cult-classic sort of camp, but still had a thread of dignity. RA3 is like the drunk who tries to take himself seriously: it's only a matter of time before he trips up.

Gameplay aside, RA3 appeared to market itself on the visual element: big name actors, ludicrously cartoon graphics, and women.
Good God, the women.
With the exception of Tanya and one scene each in RA and RA2, I challenge you to find a female officer bare below the neck in the previous games. RA3, I don't think I came across a single actress who wasn't showing cleavage. Someone somewhere made the comment "Pervert Alert 3", and I can see why.

What little story there is to the game feels like a cheap rehash of its predecessors. Let's go back in time for the win! Done in 1. High-ranking military official who betrays you? Done in 2. Lead character assassinated by his own side? 1 and 2. While I did have to smile at the irony of Einstein's death, as a whole the premise felt forced and (oh teh noes!) uninspired.

Then we look at the script, and this is what truly let me down. Westwood established its reputation through its storytelling ability: part of the lasting legacy of the C&C franchise is the saga itself. RA was, if I may use the word, intimate, thanks to the complexity of the characters. RA2, while perhaps not as "deep", is viewable as a black Cold War comedy. RA3, to me, was dry: "Go do this mission good work soldier now kill more enemyz". You hire Tim Curry, George Takei and Peter Stormare, and you can't come up with a more engaging script than this?

It was the same (albeit lesser) problem with C&C3, and the suicide of C&C4: a new director usurps the reins without even attempting to familiarize with the source material, and the result is pulp fiction.

 

[Mckertis]

Westwood established its reputation through its storytelling ability

I dont remember experiencing any "storytelling ability" in any Westwood game. Many of them were fun, but good storytelling ? In C&C franchise especially ? *snort*

 

[Hygro]

back for 1995, Red Alert was pretty cutting edge having cimenatics between every single mission.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

I think Westwood was the first game company to feature live-action cinematics.

 

[GenMarshall]

Your mileage will vary in any Resident Evil sequels

 

[Captain2]

I liked RE5 but thats probably because I like anything with co-op

 

[mech654]

Nobody here thinks Sonic 06 is probably one of the worst sequels?

I believe that Shadow 05 is much worser then Sonic 06. Considering that Shadow 05 was a contrive way to "mature" the franchises by having unneeded swearing and having guns. Which was stupid for two reasons, firstly I thought Shadow was the most powerful creature ever, so why do he need weapons? Secondly the guns themselve were pointless since it had no aiming ability. I thought the idea of driving a car also a stupid idea.
I experience way too many cheap deaths in this game then in Sonic 06 due to the horrbile controls and camara.

In the end I felt Shadow was a betary towards the old school.

Moving on, AOE 2 is way more superior To AOE. OTOH AOE3 was inferior to both of them. AOE3 campagin was terrible, after playing AOE2 and taking part of many history's great campagins I felt AOE3 campagin was huge let down, since it have you following some knight in the seach for some boring legend.

I agree that Westwood usually have good storylines. I remember loving the cutscreens for Tiberian Sun and the Red alert series.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

I believe that Shadow 05 is much worser then Sonic 06. Considering that Shadow 05 was a contrive way to "mature" the franchises by having unneeded swearing and having guns. Which was stupid for two reasons, firstly I thought Shadow was the most powerful creature ever, so why do he need weapons? Secondly the guns themselve were pointless since it had no aiming ability. I thought the idea of driving a car also a stupid idea.

My God, it all makes sense now!

 

[Tee Kay]

Some seem to have some unusual hatred against Red Alert 3. Why is this? Simply because it changed the gameplay a bit? Maybe if you go into the game expecting Red Alert 2, you'll be disappointed, but if you just go into it as a normal player, I think it can be quite enjoyable.

Some people have told me this, "You're just used to the older games, Taillesskangaru. Try exploring it a bit more and you'll like it". I... I can't.

My issue with Red Alert 3 is basically what Thorvald said. The game doesn't engage me. When I play the earlier games or Generals I actually feel like controlling units on an actual battlefield. There's a sense of purpose with the single-player missions. Not so in Red Alert 3; playing that game seems to me like playing an arcade game. While the gameplay in general is alright, the way it looks and the way it's made makes it somehow artificial. I know it was intentional and I don't mind a little cartoonish flavour but too much of it can backfire (seriously, an APC which you can only leave via a man-cannon?), and it did, for me at least. It's the reason I didn't buy the expansion.

It's the same issue, though to lesser extent, CnC 3. Again, more a game environment and storyline issue rather than a balanced gameplay issue, and though I do have issues with the gameplay I put that down to my own crappy playing and not the way it's made. I have yet to play CnC 4 or see any of its content; the previews, reviews, the DRM and the horror stories Thorvald's been telling me have been enough to put me off, for now. I'll probably get it eventually, or at least watch the FMVs, out of curiosity.

I hear Red Alert being insane is actually one of its distinguishing traits in Command and Conquer

As Thorvald said, it wasn't always that way.

 

[Kan' Sharuminar]

My God, it all makes sense now!

VG Cats has that effect on a lot of games. Good call

 

[Tee Kay]

I agree that Westwood usually have good storylines. I remember loving the cutscreens for Tiberian Sun and the Red alert series.

One Vision! One Purpose! Peace Through Power!

The Tiberian Sun cutscenes are the best, IMHO. I have to say, some of the Tiberium Wars ones aren't bad either (though the faction lighting is just excessive). For Kane's Wrath though, all you get is the view of a computer sitting in the same location for two decades.

 

[e350tb]

I'm going to say right now that I have played exactly one of the C&C series (Tiberium Wars), but I have researched the gameplay of the rest of the series.

Up to Generals (not including Tiberium Wars, which I liked), I am interested in purchasing them. Neither Tiberian Twilight nor Red Alert 3 fill me with any interest at all. In that, RA3 sounds, no offense to any who like it, a bit like frat humour.

Now to Call of Duty. Bizarrely, I actually liked World at War better then Modern Warfare. Even more bizarrely, I liked MW2 better then Modern Warfare. 2 still has a very special place in my heart, though.

 

[azzaman333]

Now to Call of Duty. Bizarrely, I actually liked World at War better then Modern Warfare. Even more bizarrely, I liked MW2 better then Modern Warfare. 2 still has a very special place in my heart, though.

It's perfectly understandable how one could like MW2 more than MW1.

 

[GoodGame]

I'm pretty much tired of crappy game design in the "professional" gaming industry.

 

[cardgame]

Crappy design sells.

 

[GoodGame]

...like poopie (Excepting Wii Sports and Wii Play).

 

[Harbringer]

It's perfectly understandable how one could like MW2 more than MW1.

Like...how can you like the first and not the second?or vice versa? the second one is litterally like a version 1.5 of the first, or a Valve sized patch or something.

 

[LightSpectra]

I was kinda upset at how KOTOR2 turned out. Not just the buggyness and incompleteness of it; I thought the characters were really bland (though they certainly had more depth than the characters in the original), the atmosphere felt so empty (likely because there was no soundtrack whatsoever and a lot of the graphics were re-used), the plot was all over the place (Nihilus was built up as some kind of demigod, but his role in the story was so out-of-nowhere and pointless that he may as well have fallen into the game with a parachute), the combat was too similar to the original game, etc.

Deus Ex 2 is underrated. Yeah, it was much easier and simplified from the original, but the plot was still really compelling and it was fun to explore. I haven't one iota of faith in the new game coming out because Warren Spector isn't on the project.

Left 4 Dead 2 is a great game, but it's not different enough to warrant paying money for it. I got it as a gift.

Turning XCOM into a shooter? Really, what were they thinking?

 

[sophie]

I think it really depends.

What generally makes a sequel movie bad? Or even every tv show that isn't serialized after the 2nd season or so? Usually it's because the writers didn't plan for an additional season or sequel. The result is hastily throwing together a story for a sequel to cash in on the original's popularity. Therefore, I think, the popular games that rely on story tend to be worse, while the games in which developers can simply take the same system, and add features to improve the gameplay, tend to be better with the sequels.

Note: All of this is out the window when the game/show/movie is planned in advance, and either a.) develops at their own pace, as with Diablo, or b.) leaves room open for possible sequels.

 

[jenie]

Civilization series - Revolution sucked, and from what I hear 3 and 4 do too

thats funny saying that in a Civilization forum.....i love # 4 plus i do have Revolution also....i think both are very addicting...