Is Babylon overpowered?

[Chee]

Just played my first Emperor game and first time as Babylon. I had only recently moved to King from Prince.

I won a science victory on turn 280 with only 4 cities. Didn't get into conflict once throughout the game (very odd). The amount of great scientists they generate is ridiculous, especially combined with certain buildings / wonders.

I am going to try again with a random civ, as there is no way the game should have been that easy at Emperor. I think Babylon must be overpowered.

 

[CYZ]

Babylon gives you a strong science advantage and science is often considered the most important thing. They are kindof overpowered.

 

[durian]

Yes, it definitely is. The science advantage that Babylon is gets is just too strong. Korea is a little overpowered too, in my opinion.

 

[Brichals]

Indubitably

A win on a new higher level is still a win though, its a great way to move up levels, i.e. play a civ that is OP on a certain map type. Then you can mix it up with other civs and maps.

 

[Gucumatz]

100%. It may be fun to use in singleplayer but its seen at its greatest comparison in Multiplayer where it is clearly Overpowered.

 

[PhilBowles]

I think the question is whether Babylon is overpowered, or whether GSes are. Or rather, the answer is that it's widely accepted GSes are the most overpowered feature of the game - and so the question should be "would Babylon's ability be overpowered if GSes got a realistic fix (i.e. contributing a fixed number of beakers rather than auto-researching a chosen tech)".

 

[Gucumatz]

Still wouldn't deal with the fact that an early Academy can get them through the early techs with ease. Fixing Great Scientists still wouldn't fix the fact they get one so early.

 

[bhavv]

Id move the free GS they get to education maybe. Babylon were even more broken back when libraries had scientist slots, and the removal of these slots didn't only slightly nerf Babylon, it made their free GS at writing far more valuable as every other civ lost access to being able to use Scientists in the early game. Id also remove Koreas UA being able to affect unemployed citizens, the only way to benefit from it before universities should be by at least having to build temples and / or marketplaces.

On paper though, Babylon are weaker than philosophical was in Civ IV, but the academies and maybe also bulbing is stronger.

 

[Kaosprophet]

Id move the free GS they get to education maybe. Babylon were even more broken back when libraries had scientist slots, and the removal of these slots didn't only slightly need Babylon, it made their free GS at writing far more valuable as every other civ lost access to being able to use Scientists in the early game. Id also remove Koreas UA being able to affect unemployed citizens, the only way to benefit from it before universities should be by at least having to build temples and / or marketplaces.

On paper though, Babylon are weaker than philosophical was in Civ IV, but the academies and maybe also bulbing is stronger.

Bulbing is definately stronger in Civ5 than in Civ4 - it's far more flexible (can bulb any available tech, not limited to fixed paths,) and is always one bulb = 1 tech regardless of the cost of that tech, whereas in Civ4 they provide a scaling amount of beakers that start falling short of a full tech around the Rennaissance era. Still strong up to that point, but past that it's more debatable - while in 5, they just keep getting stronger until you've unlocked everything you actually care about.

Settling is less clear, but I'd say at least the first Academy built in Civ4 is generally better than the first Academy built in Civ5. Ones after that are more marginal.

 

[Gucumatz]

Bulbing is definately stronger in Civ5 than in Civ4 - it's far more flexible (can bulb any available tech, not limited to fixed paths,) and is always one bulb = 1 tech regardless of the cost of that tech, whereas in Civ4 they provide a scaling amount of beakers that start falling short of a full tech around the Rennaissance era. Still strong up to that point, but past that it's more debatable - while in 5, they just keep getting stronger until you've unlocked everything you actually care about.

Settling is less clear, but I'd say at least the first Academy built in Civ4 is generally better than the first Academy built in Civ5. Ones after that are more marginal.

Most people settle their first 1-3 Great Scientists dpepending on rate of production due to how powerful they are as academies. Again, people underestimate the power of academies. Its the reason why in every competitive Multi game you see early academies in every civ not just Babylon.

 

[aatami]

I wish for the love of god that Babylon isn't nerfed again. It's already balanced as it is, in my opinion.

 

[joncnunn]

Babylon does indeed seem to be one of the easyist civs to win as in the hands of a human.

But the AI is amazing at squandering many civs advantages.

 

[spider1]

I wish for the love of god that Babylon isn't nerfed again. It's already balanced as it is, in my opinion.

Agreed. Leave Babylon alone! I play them specifically for the advantages they bring me. Just like when I play the Inca or France.

 

[smallfish]

Babylon does indeed seem to be one of the easyist civs to win as in the hands of a human.

But the AI is amazing at squandering many civs advantages.

Gentlemen, I present to you

The Hills of Belgrade

Whenever we think of "sending young men and boys to die needless deaths in the millions", the Flanders and General Haig comes to mind.

Here in this wonky civ world of Zhongguo, they think of Belgrade and President Nobunaga.

Though this picture doesn't show it, Oda has been sending samurais, then only recently rifles and cannons, to die trying to take that German-allied CS out at least since the 1600s.

 

[Kaosprophet]

Agreed. Leave Babylon alone! I play them specifically for the advantages they bring me. Just like when I play the Inca or France.

Sometimes I like to play the Inca in Civ4 as well. This doesn't stop me from recognizing that they are clearly out of balance with the rest of the civs in that game

 

[apocalypse105]

babylon isn't overpowered great scientists are

 

[bhavv]

babylon isn't overpowered great scientists are

This. Babylon are weaker than philosophic civs were in Civ 4, its just that GSs are a lot more powerful now.

 

[stlh2opolo]

babylon isn't overpowered great scientists are

Agreed. If Great Scientists weren't so good, there'd be no problem with Babylon.

 

[apocalypse105]

Agreed. If Great Scientists weren't so good, there'd be no problem with Babylon.

I would rather see the great scientist nerved and give babylon a bonus in great person creation.

 

[headcase]

babylon isn't overpowered great scientists are

This is somewhat true. If GSs only greatly increased the rate of study of a tech (e.g. double the beakers while studying the tech) instead of popping it that might bring it back down to earth. Alternatively, other greats are under-powered, they should be beefed up, and Babylon should get a reduction in GSs.

Thing about Babylon is the walls are a great help, encourage a protective strategy early on, and IMO do the most to differentiate them and should be their main advantage.