Is Common Core Math Good or Bad?

[Farm Boy]

Well, a quarter would have gotten me two airheads with tax. It wouldn't get him one anymore with tax(side gripe about our Casey's becoming a trash gas station like all the rest, prepay or credit only, like a bunch of degenerates).

Either way though, they still clink and add up when you have an amount of them. Just had a conversation with him about gathering up all his earthly currency in a plastic bag and hauling it around the house like a sack of loot.

 

[civvver]

Bah physics in grade school?

Honestly I think they should start introducing kids to programming much, much earlier. It's a middle school or high school elective I think. Kids are savvy, they're around electronics all the time. There's no reason they couldn't write some basic programs using easier scripting languages as early as second or third grade. Get them on computers, typing with keyboards, not just using ipads to do reading homework. Teaches all sorts of logic that can be applied elsewhere.

 

[Hygro]

What if in school you got a computer and the computer could only do what you programmed it to do, but you had to use that computer to write all your essays and do all your homework?

 

[Truthy]

Kids would write their essays using emacs or vim, like nerds did in the 80s and 90s. There'd be no fancy formatting, but it would get the job done.

They'd realize they don't need calculators for homework:

Spoiler :

$ python
>>> import math
>>> 345 * 65
22425
>>> math.sqrt(1234)
35.12833614050059
>>> exit()

A lot of kids would benefit. They'd write their own quadratic equation solvers, create their own plotting code, and learn and think more.

A lot of kids would struggle immensely and fall behind.

 

[Farm Boy]

What if in school you got a computer and the computer could only do what you programmed it to do, but you had to use that computer to write all your essays and do all your homework?

It's juvenile. I wouldn't click it.

Spoiler Like, really! :

There were three boys all in third grade: an Asian boy, a Spanish boy and a redneck. They were trying to think of games to play at recess when the Asian boy got an idea. "I know," he said, "we can play 'Who's Got the Biggest Pee Pee'".

"How do you play that?" asked the redneck.

"It's easy," said the Spanish boy, "we can play it next recess."

So when recess time came, the three boys went outside. "Alright," said the Spanish boy, "Lets play."

The Asian boy explained that all you have to do is pull down your pants and whoever has the biggest pee pee is the winner.

And so the Asian boy pulled down his pants and the other two boys were impressed.

Then the Spanish boy pulled down his pants. His pee pee was about the same size as the Asian boy's.

As the redneck boy pulled his pants down, the other two boys stared in awe.

"You win for sure," they both said.

Later that day the redneck boy went home and his mother asked him, "So did you make any new friends today?"

"Yup. I played this game called 'Who's Got the Biggest Pee Pee' and the other boys said I won. Is it because I'm a redneck?"

His mother laughed and replied, "No sweetie, you won because you're 23."

 

[Timsup2nothin]

True story?

 

[Farm Boy]

Wednesdays are rough, Tim.

>.> <.< >.>

Seriously kinda though. Conversational tangent: It's Ash Wednesday and while my family never fasted growing up, much less practiced fasting and abstinence... my wife's apparently did. So family unity being family unity, we do. The wife has a medical exception, she gets light meals. My son has an age exception, he gets light meals. I, however, am now cranky.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Wednesdays are rough, Tim.

>.> <.< >.>

Seriously kinda though. Conversational tangent: It's Ash Wednesday and while my family never fasted growing up, much less practiced fasting and abstinence... my wife's apparently did. So family unity being family unity, we do. The wife has a medical exception, she gets light meals. My son has an age exception, he gets light meals. I, however, am now cranky.

So, you fast in unity with...someone who actually isn't fasting? You are a good man.

 

[Farm Boy]

Eh. She does to the extent advisable. I could stand to miss a couple. Kiddo is trying to pass on candy for lent minus Sundays. Kinda curious to see how that goes.

 

[tuckerkao]

Beyond real world uses, I do think it could be pretty useful for helping kids understand how number representations work and maybe that could make them better at thinking about numbers in general, as well as multiplication, etc. What does "110" mean? What if we interpret it differently (ie, in binary)? It seems like that could give kids more "mathematical maturity."

This is Traditional Method
[binary] 110 which is 2^2 + 2^1 + 0 only worth [decimal] 6, so with n^2 + n^1 + 0, you can convert from any base back to decimal. The hard part is to convert from decimal into other bases.

This is Common Core Math Method
Also an alternative way to convert: [binary] 110 = (1 * 2 + 1) * 2 + 0 = (2 + 1) * 2 = 3 * 2 = 6

 

[Patine]

Regardless of whether American students are studying Common Core, what they had before, what they had before with Bush's "No Student Left Behind," private school or home schooling religious indoctrination, military school, or too busy working on farms, or in mines or factories for "book learnin'," the Canadian Provincial ciriculi have almost always been head-and-shoulders above them in quality in my lifetime.

 

[cardgame]

TIme to look at your clock 9:00 am and 9:00 pm everyday. I never get late for my appointments after learning the dozenal math.

If you are angry, don't use foot and inch again, because that's where the dozenal conversions come in to place. ---> 3/4 of 1 foot = 9 inches.

So why the United States still use the Imperial System with miles, feet and inches while almost the entire world is operating on the metric system with kilometers, meters and centimeters?

Why? Common Core Math teaches subtractions using distance. The distance between 1 dozen and 7 is 5, so I can do that dozenal subtractions as fast as other decimal formula.

Not everyone was trained by decimal math, at least I know this group operates their everyday lives on dozenal base - http://www.dozenalsociety.org.uk/

I mean, kids do learn how to tell time in what, first or second grade? Has nearly nothing to do with base 12 math as a field and more to do with the operation of a standard clock, and fractions. I'm also pretty sure distance is a subtraction method from before common core...

 

[tuckerkao]

I mean, kids do learn how to tell time in what, first or second grade? Has nearly nothing to do with base 12 math as a field and more to do with the operation of a standard clock, and fractions. I'm also pretty sure distance is a subtraction method from before common core...

Wow, your kids are so smart, they must have had no tardy and earning straight A all the time.

Then ask your kids, what time was 7 hours before 4:00 pm?

I can answer this type of question within the glimpse of a second because "1 dozen 4" - 7 = 9, so 9:00 am.

If you can handle the subtractions by distance well, then learning other math bases won't be that hard, because dozenal math simply means change the distance between 9 to 10 from 1 up to 3.

The distance between 9 and hexadecimal 10 is 7.

 

[Patine]

Wow, your kids are so smart, they must have had no tardy and earning straight A all the time.

Then ask your kids, what time was 7 hours before 4:00 pm?

I can answer this type of question within the glimpse of a second because "1 dozen 4" - 7 = 9, so 9:00 am.

If you can handle the subtractions by distance well, then learning other math bases won't be that hard, because dozenal math simply means change the distance between 9 to 10 from 1 up to 3.

The distance between 9 and hexadecimal 10 is 7.

When the questions get to the social sciences, especially history and geography outside the U.S. and not directly touching on it, how people really live and generally believe in other countries, AND certainly how the Political Spectrum is really defined, that's where the "smart American education" REALLY shows itself.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Making decimal counting the only counting during the years when our minds are really flexible is what makes non decimal systems "esoteric." The truth is that a whole lot of the trouble kids have when introduced to fractions is rooted in that. Their minds are so geared to base ten that while they understand tenths and hundredths almost intuitively the leap to fourths and sevenths and eighteenths is overwhelming. And you have to admit that people who have an intuitive grasp of fractions have a substantial advantage in day to day life. I submit that a mind introduced to alternative numerical systems when it was young and flexible would not consider them esoteric and would be finding uses for them in every day life that never occur to you or me.

"fourths", sevenths and eighteenths shouldn't be any harder to grasp than four, seven and eighteen. Well... not in a way that seems to be relevant to bases (to me) anyway. Admittedly it's not immediately intuitive if, for example, 3 sevenths is more or less than two fifths, but again I wouldn't see how changing bases would help with that.

 

[tuckerkao]

"fourths", sevenths and eighteenths shouldn't be any harder to grasp than four, seven and eighteen. Well... not in a way that seems to be relevant to bases (to me) anyway. Admittedly it's not immediately intuitive if, for example, 3 sevenths is more or less than two fifths, but again I wouldn't see how changing bases would help with that.

Seventh will usually be the hardest because seven is a larger prime number.

[Decimal] 1/3 = 0.333,333,333,333,333...... cause floating point troubles when the calculators have to deal up to quadrillions.
1/18 = 0.055,555,555,555,555...... it has the same problem because 3 and 6.

[Dozenal] 1/3 = 0.4, 1/4 = 0.3, 1/6 = 0.2, 1/9 = 0.14, 1/16 = 0.08 -> the 16 here refers to "1 dozen 6".

When the questions get to the social sciences, especially history and geography outside the U.S. and not directly touching on it, how people really live and generally believe in other countries, AND certainly how the Political Spectrum is really defined, that's where the "smart American education" REALLY shows itself.

Get A in social studies won't help the D in math.

American social studies are great, so no repeals will be necessary, keep the current way like how Trump says "Keep America Great".

American math system is broken, thus time to fix it to keep up with other strong nations such as China and India.

Would you say how wonderful your central air conditioning system functions when your refrigerator is out of order?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I mean, kids do learn how to tell time in what, first or second grade? Has nearly nothing to do with base 12 math as a field and more to do with the operation of a standard clock, and fractions. I'm also pretty sure distance is a subtraction method from before common core...

To be fair, it wouldn't be a stretch to teach them base-12 math as a way of computing time of day. I do not really have this skill memorized and it would be super helpful for me when filling out my daily time cards. In fact I think I should start practicing!

 

[Timsup2nothin]

"fourths", sevenths and eighteenths shouldn't be any harder to grasp than four, seven and eighteen. Well... not in a way that seems to be relevant to bases (to me) anyway. Admittedly it's not immediately intuitive if, for example, 3 sevenths is more or less than two fifths, but again I wouldn't see how changing bases would help with that.

Sevenths are just like tenths if you switch to a base seven numerical system. They just become the first place to the right of the decimal. So anything that breaks naturally into seven pieces, if you have to use mathematical analysis doing that math in base seven is simpler. But for you or me the entire "What?! Base seven? Never!" mechanism gets in our way because we probably have never encountered base seven in our lives, even after our brains had lost the elasticity to easily incorporate it.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Okay, so you meant "working out the decimal equivalent of a fraction" is easier then? As in "one seventh" in base 7 being 0.1, rather than 0.1428etc. How it would actually be useful beyond that step isn't immediately obvious though.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Okay, so you meant "working out the decimal equivalent of a fraction" is easier then? As in "one seventh" in base 7 being 0.1, rather than 0.1428etc. How it would actually be useful beyond that step isn't immediately obvious though.

Not so much "working out the decimal equivalent is easier." The point comes from looking at how kids take better to decimals than fractions, until they get crammed up against repeating and even worse endless non-repeating digit sequences. As long as you stick with dimes and pennies dealing with fractions in decimal form is just simple, because they grow out of the base ten numeric system the kid was given as the numeric system probably before they even started school.

Consider that "How it would actually be useful beyond that step isn't immediately obvious though" actually illustrates my point. I pretty firmly believe that a kid who gets exposed to numeric systems in a more flexible way grows up into someone who looks at this conversation and says "How could Manfred not see that? Why didn't Tim just point out <something Tim can't see either but is totally obvious to this differently taught person>?"