Is Common Core Math Good or Bad?

[tuckerkao]

Okay, so you meant "working out the decimal equivalent of a fraction" is easier then? As in "one seventh" in base 7 being 0.1, rather than 0.1428etc. How it would actually be useful beyond that step isn't immediately obvious though.

If I really want to work specifically for 7, the multiples and factorization of 7, base fourteen or base "1 dozen 2" would be the best.

You probably won't like your 1/2 to stand at 0.333,333,333,333...... in base 7.

To be fair, it wouldn't be a stretch to teach them base-12 math as a way of computing time of day. I do not really have this skill memorized and it would be super helpful for me when filling out my daily time cards. In fact I think I should start practicing!

The most challenged part of dozenal math is that the 2 new numerical symbols aren't always the same, some people use X and E, some use ᘔ and Ɛ, some use A and B, and there are at least 2-3 more other options without the regular fonts.

There can raise issues when use X and E or other existing alphabets, such as X frequently appear as the variables in algebra, E major in music, or displaying those new symbols on the regular digital clocks.

 

[The_J]

If you have issues with the 12h clock, I recommend the 24h counting, makes it a lot easier .

 

[Truthy]

Which is "military time" to Americans, so it's just another thing my inelastic brain can't deal with

 

[hobbsyoyo]

something something zulu

 

[Patine]

something something zulu

Shaka Zulu measured time in his war campaigns by the sun and stars - the same way most Pre-Industrial cultures did.

 

[tuckerkao]

Which is "military time" to Americans, so it's just another thing my inelastic brain can't deal with

There will really be no difference between the standard and the military time scales when the numbers are based in dozenal, shift from am to pm really only adding a 1 symbol to the dozen's digit, see comparison -

The dozenal time will be pronounced as "1 Dozen o'clock", "1 Dozen 1 o'clock" and so on.

 

[cardgame]

Or just stick with real numbers

this is giving me esperanto flashbacks

 

[Patine]

Or just stick with real numbers

this is giving me esperanto flashbacks

Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawkings would have gotten nowhere if they limited themselves to "real numbers."

 

[cardgame]

Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawkings did advanced math and accomplished things

not made up another language with no particular use

 

[Patine]

Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawkings did advanced math and accomplished things

not made up another language with no particular use

If you listened to them "talk shop," you'd have thought they were speaking another language.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Which is "military time" to Americans, so it's just another thing my inelastic brain can't deal with

something something zulu

Shaka Zulu measured time in his war campaigns by the sun and stars - the same way most Pre-Industrial cultures did.

For anyone who didn't follow the leap from "military time" to "zulu time" and got sidetracked into pre-industrial time...

The military, when conducting operations involving units scattered across several time zones, can't afford to have misunderstandings over "but I thought you said six o'clock and it's only five o'clock...oh, well, yeah that's here, my bad" so everybody involved operates on "zulu time," time zone Z, which is Greenwich Mean Time. It's also used when dealing with a fast moving platform that might cross several time zones in a fairly short period since you don't want to have to clown around with constantly adjusting the clocks to local time, so I'm sure our local rocket scientist meant time zone Z, not Shaka.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Not so much "working out the decimal equivalent is easier." The point comes from looking at how kids take better to decimals than fractions, until they get crammed up against repeating and even worse endless non-repeating digit sequences. As long as you stick with dimes and pennies dealing with fractions in decimal form is just simple, because they grow out of the base ten numeric system the kid was given as the numeric system probably before they even started school.

Consider that "How it would actually be useful beyond that step isn't immediately obvious though" actually illustrates my point. I pretty firmly believe that a kid who gets exposed to numeric systems in a more flexible way grows up into someone who looks at this conversation and says "How could Manfred not see that? Why didn't Tim just point out <something Tim can't see either but is totally obvious to this differently taught person>?"

Well I just am not seeing how conceptually dealing with a thing being broken up into seven parts is a) all that difficult to begin with, or b) made easier by using base 7. At that point you'd just be thinking of it as "one tenth", but where 10 = 7. How is that easier?

While on the other hand I can definitely see how 1/7 expressed as a decimal is much simpler in base 7 than in base 10 (if you can still call it a "decimal" in that case of course). But apparently that's not what you mean, so...

But also you seem to be asking me to believe that something I can't see is definitely real, based on the word of someone else who also can't see it :/

 

[Timsup2nothin]

But also you seem to be asking me to believe that something I can't see is definitely real, based on the word of someone else who also can't see it :/

Yeah, but we have seen similar things work. People exposed to a concept at an early age will consistently apply that concept in ways that surprise the people who taught it to them. The people who had to "work it out" already have ways to approach a problem that they used before they worked the concept out, so the application just never occurs to them. By installing the concept into a young, flexible mind all sorts of applications are found. That's how knowledge grows generationally.

 

[Farm Boy]

not Shaka

Shaka is a pretty long leap! Though I appreciate Patine bringing it mostly.

You don't have to go back preindustrial to find people who don't operate internally by the crazy clock. They're probably the people you know that are late for things. Constantly. The "time-minded" find this astonishingly rude. "They're wasting parts of my life because they're inconsiderate pricks!" Well sure. Some people are inconsiderate pricks and maybe that's why they're late. But a lot of them just get distracted because their brain thinks in tasks, or games, or chores, or where the sun is, or about how much I can get done before noon or Sunday. Different brains, different strokes. I never wore a watch while walking beans, all it was was maddening and unhealthy. You could hear the noon siren go when the sun was high, that was lunch. Etc.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Yeah, but we have seen similar things work. People exposed to a concept at an early age will consistently apply that concept in ways that surprise the people who taught it to them.

I'm not disagreeing with the general concept, but you're positing a specific case and a specific benefit here. But seemingly also that I can't understand what that benefit is, and neither can you.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'm not disagreeing with the general concept, but you're positing a specific case and a specific benefit here. But seemingly also that I can't understand what that benefit is, and neither can you.

I don't know how old you are, but It's definitely too late for me. Despite having made substantial efforts to keep it flexible, my mind has too many familiar solution paths to fully exploit any new concept. Alternate base numeric systems are something I understand, but they will never be something I think to apply to a problem. But if some youngster popped up tomorrow saying "jeeeze, I don't see why you don't just approach that using base six, it makes it so much easier" I won't be surprised. I'll try not to be offended when he adds "stupid geezers" under his breath either. Nature of the beast.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

so I'm sure our local rocket scientist meant time zone Z, not Shaka.

I did.

 

[tuckerkao]

I don't know how old you are, but It's definitely too late for me. Despite having made substantial efforts to keep it flexible, my mind has too many familiar solution paths to fully exploit any new concept. Alternate base numeric systems are something I understand, but they will never be something I think to apply to a problem. But if some youngster popped up tomorrow saying "jeeeze, I don't see why you don't just approach that using base six, it makes it so much easier" I won't be surprised. I'll try not to be offended when he adds "stupid geezers" under his breath either. Nature of the beast.

All base-6 primes will be ended with 1 or 5 regardless how many digits total because the last digits of 0, 2, 4 are even numbers thus whole divide by 2, last digits of 0, 3 are trine or triox numbers thus whole divide by 3.

The only exceptions to the rule are only 2 and 3 themselves to be the single digit primes not ending in 1 or 5.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

All base-6 primes will be ended with 1 or 5 regardless how many digits total because the last digits of 0, 2, 4 are even numbers thus whole divide by 2, last digits of 0, 3 are trine or triox numbers thus whole divide by 3.

The only exceptions to the rule are only 2 and 3 themselves to be the single digit primes not ending in 1 or 5.

If you said "stupid geezer" at the end of that it was low enough that I didn't hear it.

 

[Patine]

For anyone who didn't follow the leap from "military time" to "zulu time" and got sidetracked into pre-industrial time...

The military, when conducting operations involving units scattered across several time zones, can't afford to have misunderstandings over "but I thought you said six o'clock and it's only five o'clock...oh, well, yeah that's here, my bad" so everybody involved operates on "zulu time," time zone Z, which is Greenwich Mean Time. It's also used when dealing with a fast moving platform that might cross several time zones in a fairly short period since you don't want to have to clown around with constantly adjusting the clocks to local time, so I'm sure our local rocket scientist meant time zone Z, not Shaka.

THE military? Is there only one "military" in the world and all of history? Banal nationalist slip detected!