Is Irish Unification in the near future?

[Gwyddelig]

I wonder, if anyone has any opinions, what role the diminishing influence of religion in politics may have in potential reunification? As Ulster Brits gradually cease to self-identify as Protestant, do you think that they may come to self-identify as Irish rather than British? It's not incorrect to say that the division in national identity was heavily inspired by the division in religion, at least from the Unionist perspective.

Hum. Tricky.
There is a school of thought that religion was only a convenient cover for competing forms of violent nationalism and even when the influence of religion wanes, the hatred is still there becuase relgion is a identifier by shorthand for other things (politics, social world view and etc). Home many times did clergy of all denominations call for an end to violence only to be ignored?

Talking to Unionist buddies, they've no problem with identifying as Irish; after all they do so in large numbers every February-March! but it's what that means . For me, being Irish is a standalone concept whereas they see it as a sub-identity within the British "family". That's an important distinction.

As for the OP - can't see it any time soon. I think it's ceased to be a major issue for anyone south of the border and even north of the border so long as Unionists aren't engaged in a orgy of big mickey swinging then most nationalists are content of a day-to-day basis.

 

[Gwyddelig]

Unless you count the time they spent under British rule, Ireland has never been a unified country and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Might want to look up Brian Boru, my firend
Also while we weren't politically unified much I'd argue that that means very little in the context of early medieval history anyway! At the time of the Norman conquest, home many unified "countries" were there in Europe??? Pretty much every single European "nation" looked startlingly different to now.

 

[Masada]

Isn't the demographic situation of Northern Ireland swinging towards the Catholics anyway? I'd say its just a matter of time. If it happens at all. I don't believe its all that necessary but then I'm not Irish

 

[Traitorfish]

Might want to look up Brian Boru, my firend
Also while we weren't politically unified much I'd argue that that means very little in the context of early medieval history anyway! At the time of the Norman conquest, home many unified "countries" were there in Europe??? Pretty much every single European "nation" looked startlingly different to now.

True- go back a thousand years and there were barely a handful of modern nations in existence- England, Denmark and Norway are the only that spring to mind. Even nations which did, in some form, exist at the time, such as France and Scotland, were incomplete by modern standards, while others, such as Germany and Spain, were divided between many smaller states.

 

[~Corsair#01~]

Thgis is mostly true. So, what would change your mind Corsair? What could the Republic do that might change the Unionists' minds and accept unification?

Nothing the Republic can do would affect things. It's a matter of ethnic identity.

I believe that Irish and British are overlapping identities and that the two nations should be united in any way possible. To me it is a simple manifest fact that everyone in Ireland is British and Irish and that being in the UK or not has nothing to do with it.

But very few others think that way. Most people see the issue as a battle between "Irish" and "British" and unless there's a big surge in support for moderate politics in the north, this will carry on indefinitely. In truth there isn't much political interest in reconciliation as most of our major politicians here are relics who depend on ethnic divisions for their political base. There's no role for Sinn Fein or any of the Unionist parties in a united Ireland and they know it.

 

[Brian Shanahan]

As a Southern Irishman who has strong ties to the War of Independance, I would say no on two grounds, the demographics wont support it on many grounds, and why would we want to join with a country that is even more dysfunctional than our own.

 

[Brian Shanahan]

Isn't the demographic situation of Northern Ireland swinging towards the Catholics anyway? I'd say its just a matter of time. If it happens at all. I don't believe its all that necessary but then I'm not Irish

Not nowhere as quickly aqs it was 15 years ago, ever since the paedophile porblem the Catholic Church's power has been broken on the island, and now good Catholic daughters are insisting on condom use, so the birth rate is down a lot.

 

[Dumanios]

Maybe...

 

[Dachs]

Not all of us Americans are like that, but, the majority of us are.

[citation needed]

Might want to look up Brian Boru, my firend
Also while we weren't politically unified much I'd argue that that means very little in the context of early medieval history anyway! At the time of the Norman conquest, home many unified "countries" were there in Europe??? Pretty much every single European "nation" looked startlingly different to now.

Okay, so that excuses the early medieval part. So what's your collective excuse for the remainder of the interval between then and now? This comment was made purely for my own personal amusement.

 

[Godwynn]

I'm for Irish unification, I hope to see it sometime in my life.

I would prefer Irish unification with the rest of Western Europe into one nation, though. That I really hope to see in my lifetime.

 

[Lord Baal]

I'm for Irish unification, I hope to see it sometime in my life.

I would prefer Irish unification with the rest of Western Europe into one nation, though. That I really hope to see in my lifetime.

If the Germans get up to their old tricks, it'll happen. They're overdue to invade France as it is.

 

[Gwyddelig]

Nothing the Republic can do would affect things. It's a matter of ethnic identity.

I believe that Irish and British are overlapping identities and that the two nations should be united in any way possible. To me it is a simple manifest fact that everyone in Ireland is British and Irish and that being in the UK or not has nothing to do with it.

But very few others think that way. Most people see the issue as a battle between "Irish" and "British" and unless there's a big surge in support for moderate politics in the north, this will carry on indefinitely. In truth there isn't much political interest in reconciliation as most of our major politicians here are relics who depend on ethnic divisions for their political base. There's no role for Sinn Fein or any of the Unionist parties in a united Ireland and they know it.

Ah, the sticky morass that is Irish identity. You are of course, perfectly entitled to be who you want to be and I'm not arrogant enough to tell you who you "are" but from my own personal perspective I'm significantly less "British" than an American, Canadian or Australian. I've lived in the UK too so I do have at least some experience of British culture and etc. in its natural habitat. Of course, I do feel a degree of kinship with British people; we're hardly polar oppposites after all but that is as far as it goes. The legacy of many generations being instructed to trot out the mantra of, "I am a happy British child" is instructive. This isn't about anglophobia BTW. While I'd be slow to say that Irish and British are mutually exclusive, I don't fall into the cultural background that makes such a combination meaningful. I suspect that most Irish people are probably closer to this line of thinking but YMMV.

You point about political redundancy is a good one but there's a more fundamental issue even before you get to that namely - who actually wants a UI? SF? even in spite of your point (and it'll be one that Gerry has considered long and hard, hence their charm drive down here) I reckon it's fair to say they do. The SDLP? Not fussed I'd say. The Irish Government - not a holy chance.

 

[Gwyddelig]

[citation needed]

Okay, so that excuses the early medieval part. So what's your collective excuse for the remainder of the interval between then and now? This comment was made purely for my own personal amusement.

Drink, The Reformation and dodgy spuds.

I think this about covers it

 

[Gwyddelig]

Isn't the demographic situation of Northern Ireland swinging towards the Catholics anyway? I'd say its just a matter of time. If it happens at all. I don't believe its all that necessary but then I'm not Irish

Yes but much more slowly than 10 years ago even. The assumption that Catholic = actively Pro UI is not a robust one either. If a border poll was held in the morning it would be lucky to get a third of the vote I'd say.

 

[Masada]

Yes but much more slowly than 10 years ago even. The assumption that Catholic = actively Pro UI is not a robust one either. If a border poll was held in the morning it would be lucky to get a third of the vote I'd say.

Doesn't surprise me in the least.

 

[Gwyddelig]

Doesn't surprise me in the least.

Of course, on a day-to-day basis living in NI is different to living in the ROI except in the most cosmetic of fashions. We're a long was even from Drumcree, never mind Bloody Sunday. In fact, these days the PSNI provide training to our police force in terms of community policing and the like. There's certainly still things that your average nationalist could rail about but when everyone's being fairly careful to play nice, what's the point in upsetting the applecart? The splinter groups tried and failed pretty spectacularly to draw people back into conflict.

 

[RedRalph]

Nothing the Republic can do would affect things. It's a matter of ethnic identity.

I believe that Irish and British are overlapping identities and that the two nations should be united in any way possible. To me it is a simple manifest fact that everyone in Ireland is British and Irish and that being in the UK or not has nothing to do with it.

But very few others think that way. Most people see the issue as a battle between "Irish" and "British" and unless there's a big surge in support for moderate politics in the north, this will carry on indefinitely. In truth there isn't much political interest in reconciliation as most of our major politicians here are relics who depend on ethnic divisions for their political base. There's no role for Sinn Fein or any of the Unionist parties in a united Ireland and they know it.

I've encountered this view on another board and am amazed by it. Why exactly do you think Irish is a subsection of Britishness? I'm not offended, just fascinated

 

[Gwyddelig]

I've encountered this view on another board and am amazed by it. Why exactly do you think Irish is a subsection of Britishness? I'm not offended, just fascinated

Well, it's one that Kevin Myers and Eoghan Harris would probably have a lot of time for and there is a not-inconsequential legacy population who certainly view Britain as The Mothership. Much like yourself, I don't inherently "get" it but then; I don't have to get it, I just have to respect/tolerate it as another aspect of the hodge-podge that is the "National Character". And I do.

 

[Cullyn]

Not nowhere as quickly aqs it was 15 years ago, ever since the paedophile porblem the Catholic Church's power has been broken on the island, and now good Catholic daughters are insisting on condom use, so the birth rate is down a lot.

I find this funny as we are in the middle of the biggest baby boom since the Famine!

Unification may never happen. Its an aspiration, but not a political requirement. Nobody will take power on an unification platform, us in the south don't really care all that much about what they get up to in the north. To be honest i think SF could live with the current status quo, it means that they have power in one small part of the island, whereas if we unified then they would become a small fish in a big pond.

As for the bombings, they are few are far between and are being carried out by the real lunatic fringe.

 

[RedRalph]

Well, it's one that Kevin Myers and Eoghan Harris would probably have a lot of time for and there is a not-inconsequential legacy population who certainly view Britain as The Mothership. Much like yourself, I don't inherently "get" it but then; I don't have to get it, I just have to respect/tolerate it as another aspect of the hodge-podge that is the "National Character". And I do.

Oh don't get me wrong, I find it more amusing than anything, and it doesn't surprise me that Kevin Myers believes it... my own wife is English, it's not an anti-Brit thing, just fascinating to see the projection issues some people have about their nationality...

Do these same people consider Celts in general a subset of British, or just Irish?