Is it ever worth not bothering at all with religion?

[Fried Egg]

I like the way that religion works in Civ5, especially the way you can customize it to make it work for whatever kind of victory you are going for.

However, is it ever a good idea to simply not bother building faith buildings and/or not trying to establish your own religion? Or is it the case that one is always at a disadvantage if one doesn't go down this route? Are there any viable strategies that work without religion?

It seems to me the main advantage of not going for faith at all is: You don't need to lose production (and gold for maintaining) faith producing buildings (shrine and temple). So, at the beginning of the game you might be able to expand more quickly and develop sooner in other areas.

There is also the fact that you might eventually pick up the follower benefits of a religion once another civ's religion spreads to your cities. Although some might require faith to purchases (such as pagodas, etc.)

 

[Rpger29]

If you were to pursue an early aggressive warmonger strategy, I don't believe religion would be even a top 5 focus. So yeah, there's definitely viable religion-free strategies. You can even use passivity to promote peace. Often the AI will be friendlier if you allow them to found/spread their religion.

IMO the obvious benefits of being the biggest fish in the religious sea outweigh the production costs and micromanagement issues. Having a world religion is a powerful asset.

 

[tsf4]

I often strive to have a well-developed religion, but after that I don't care too much about spreading it (as long as my cities have it). Since I usually play with 3-4 cities, that does't take too long to accomplish.

I usually pick Fertility Rites or the one faith giving border growth, and once I make my religion I pick Ceremonial Burial or Tithe and usually pick one of the Mosque, Pagodas, etc. When I enhance, I select the Texts one.

So at the least, I would develop a religion, but don't worry too much if your cities change beliefs. It does give bonuses, especially the early pantheon you can choose.

 

[fufie]

Admittedly I prefer getting a religion in almost all my games. The extra bonuses are usually worth it for whatever strategy I am pursuing. There are some cases where I give it low/lower priority though - mainly when my civ is already a powerhouse and can manage just fine without religion.

One example for me is China where the UA+UU+UB combo covers gold, science, early defense and then midgame war. Generally this is enough for DV, and at least emperor SV.

Other examples are the incas, babylonians, france and england on water maps. If you spend the hammers/money you would have spent towards faith for units or science buildings you're fine.

 

[kirbdog]

Going for a religion on deity can be a fool's errand. Sometimes on lower difficulties too, but you can always get one if you devote enough resources.

Sometimes it's not worth getting more than a pantheon, though. The obvious example being a quick domination game.

Religion is better when it is cheaper to get (faith pantheon, early religious CS, civ unique trait, natural wonder nearby) and harder to justify when it is expensive and you are relatively late to found one anyway (e.g., using Stonehenge but getting a religion 30 turns after a religious civ next to you). It always has its advantages of course (founder belief, decent follower beliefs) and faith is always nice to spend on great people later.

 

[Matthew.]

IMO I think it is always worth founding a pantheon. Unless you are facing a Deity Pacal right next to you or some other extreme situation, it is a long time before that pantheon will get converted. And you only need to build a single shrine to get one.

 

[joncnunn]

In single player, I think it's always better to found a religion.
Some of the belief combos chosen by the AI are terrible. (Example from my current game: One AI chose as follower beliefs both Holy Warrior and one that uses faith for faith buildings and an enhancer the one giving 50 faith points back whenever a GP is used. The enhancer is going to be useless if they use the follower beliefs as they probably won't hit a Great Person again.)
Your much better off founding one yourself so you can pick the best beliefs left; even if your the last one to the religion.
(In MP; then there would be a much better shot at someone nearby founding a religion with beliefs you'd want.)

 

[Unresolved]

On Emperor and below, I would always get a religion. But on Immortal and Deity, I don't think it's worth trying if you don't have the proper fpt to successfully spread it.

 

[bracca]

I always found one, but I guess on Emperor difficulty it's not as hard to maintain a good fpt throughout the game compared with Immortal/Deity (haven't tried). I find it useful during all the phases of a game to be honest.

 

[Light Cleric]

Sometimes I choose not to found a religion if I either have a neighbor with a strong religion(like Ethiopia) or if a lot of religions start getting founded very early(<t50) because if I miss one, especially due to Prophet RNG, it's a huge wasted investment in a lot of respects. Sometimes having a religious neighbor can still work if you don't choose a following-based belief like Tithe/Church Property but go for Interfaith Dialogue.

 

[Rpger29]

On Emperor and below, I would always get a religion. But on Immortal and Deity, I don't think it's worth trying if you don't have the proper fpt to successfully spread it.

I suppose I should have put in a difficulty qualifier. It is always worth founding a religion on King and below, and I would agree that most Emperor games would also present a clear advantage to the player in this respect.

 

[Zixy]

You definitely need religion(KING and lower diff).Here is couple of reasons:

1.You need happines if you want huge empire, and you want huge empire always:
Goddess of Love: +1 Happiness from cities with population of 6+
Ceremonial Burial: +1 Happiness for each City following Religion
Pagodas: Use Faith to purchase Pagodas (+2 Faith, +2 Culture, +2 Happiness)
2.To buy more pagodas which provide happines, culture and faith you need:
Divine Inspiration: Each World Wonder provides +2 Faith in city(Capital should be WonderWhore, and Great engineers should be taken as much as possible)
3.Fast religion spread:
Itinerant Preachers: Religion spreads to cities 30% further away - this is insane for religion spreading

If you miss any of the first 3 beliefs than this is second best:
Religious Community: +1% Production for each follower (max +15%)

 

[budweiser]

Its called Gods & Kings. I think its worth it to get a religion whenever possible.

 

[Unresolved]

I'd take Religious Community over pagodas if I'm getting Ceremonial Burial. 3 happiness bonuses is overkill.

 

[budweiser]

On Emperor and below, I would always get a religion. But on Immortal and Deity, I don't think it's worth trying if you don't have the proper fpt to successfully spread it.

On immortal I think its still worth it just for your own happiness if you have enough faith to keep it from getting overwritten in your own borders.

 

[Unresolved]

On immortal I think its still worth it just for your own happiness if you have enough faith to keep it from getting overwritten in your own borders.

Yeah, if you have the fpt needed to do that. But if you're borderline, then I wouldn't do it since boosting your fpt is at the expense of other important things.

 

[sufficiency]

I'd take Religious Community over pagodas if I'm getting Ceremonial Burial. 3 happiness bonuses is overkill.

Uh what?

Pagodas are great faith sinks. They also provide 2 faith and 2 culture.

Religious Community is OK, but honestly not that great if you are playing a wide strategy.

 

[Unresolved]

I generally don't need more than Ceremonial Burial. So my preferred combinations are either Tithe/Pagodas or CB/RC. And I'm not a fan of pagodas because I prefer doing missionary spam to get my religion out there instead of using faith for buildings.

 

[smallfish]

On Emperor and below, I would always get a religion. But on Immortal and Deity, I don't think it's worth trying if you don't have the proper fpt to successfully spread it.

Religion, the happiness bits, are actually great stuff to help you get your domination gears rolling on immortal+

On Immortal you can even get them by accident, like I did here.

Spoiler :

 

[Tabarnak]

I will found a religion if i start with a religious civ or have natural faith producers around. Sometimes i don't care about it and focus on culture and growth instead(pantheons). It all depends of map/civs. But i will get a religion more often than i don't.

What you don't want is to spend your hammers into shrines and temples early on just to get a religion. This is sub-optimal.