Is it just me...

[kf97mopa]

...or did 10.2.8 just speed up Quartz text in Civ3? I sure seems so to me: I'm at Combustion and the world is full of cities, and the game is usually terrifyingly slow at this stage with Quartz text on, but right now it seems usable. Good to see that Apple's focusing on the important parts in life, letting tiny bugs like no network on G4s slide to give some more time to Civ 3

 

[AlanH]

I was sitting 10.2.8 out, as I couldn't see what it would do for me. Then, when I heard about the ethernet problems, I got all smug about not upgrading.

Now you've really upset me - I might even have to give it a try. Although I must say, I switched Quartz text off within a couple of days of installing Civ3, I don't remember what difference it made apart from speeding the game up, and I've never missed it.

 

[kf97mopa]

It looks a lot prettier with it on... Actually, I think that it's easier to read with Quartz text rendering enabled. The speed has improved several times with updates to both Civ and Jaguar, but this time it's fast enough to be usable for me (iMac DV, 400MHz G3 w/ Rage 128).

 

[dojoboy]

Originally posted by kf97mopa
...or did 10.2.8 just speed up Quartz text in Civ3? I sure seems so to me: I'm at Combustion and the world is full of cities, and the game is usually terrifyingly slow at this stage with Quartz text on, but right now it seems usable. Good to see that Apple's focusing on the important parts in life, letting tiny bugs like no network on G4s slide to give some more time to Civ 3

I don't believe I'm upgrading either. In fact, Apple isn't offering it as a download any longer. Regarding quartz rendering, I've been playing w/ it on since x.2.6, and its running really well. Of course, I've since bought a new eMac which helps.

 

[AlanH]

Sounds like you are benefiting from Quartz Extreme hardware acceleration. I still have the original ATI Rage in my G4/350, which doesn't have enough memory to run QE. The price of a new AGP card is ridiculous, particularly when you compare it with the equivalent card for a PC. There are claims that you can flash a PC card to run in a Mac, but you need a PC to do it, and I'm not convinced it works, since reports I've read indicate the result is no faster.

 

[kf97mopa]

AlanH, what sort of computer do you have? You might be able to find a used ATI or Nvidia PC board really cheap that is still much faster than a Rage 128 or equivalent. I know that PC Radeon 8500s have been flashed, as well as Geforce 2MX and Geforce 3s. See the following FAQs for some info:

http://forums.xlr8yourmac.com/actio...onse=answer.faq.lasso&-recordID=33548&-search
http://forums.xlr8yourmac.com/actio...onse=answer.faq.lasso&-recordID=33619&-search

Personally, I'm getting myself a new G5 one of these days...

 

[AlanH]

@kf97mopa:

As I said, it's a G4/350 tower. That's the AGP Sawtooth model - I was an early adopter of the G4.

The articles on the ends of your links reinforce the impression I already have. The whole idea of flashing a PC video card seems to be fraught with uncertainties.

I've actually been looking at this option for two reasons. I think it would be a good speed upgrade for my G4/350 Sawtooth, plus the existing card has turned into a sound card. It has a wee fan on top of the video processor chip that's started to make a very annoying noise that's louder than the rest of the hardware put together.

The most annoying thing is that Other World Computing advertise a Mac Quartz Extreme compatible 32 MB card for about $75. I'd be prepared to cough up that much, but by the time they've shipped it to the UK and the local Customs boys have charged me UK VAT at 17.5% plus handling, I'd be down on the deal by about twice that.

Yeah! I'll get myself a G5 real soon as well. Whoops! There go those flying pigs again!

 

[kf97mopa]

It's all a factor of how much time and/or money you have. If you have little money and lots of time, go flashing. If you have more money but less time, buy a real board. I used to be in the first category while in University, but since I graduated I'm firmly in the second - as proven by the fact that I'm posting this from work. On a Saturday.

 

[AlanH]

Originally posted by kf97mopa
It's all a factor of how much time and/or money you have. If you have little money and lots of time, go flashing. If you have more money but less time, buy a real board.

Not really, and you missed out option three - live with it.

Flashing looks to be high risk - a good chance of thowing money down the drain. And it appears to need a PC with an AGP slot, which I don't have access to. Spending time instead of money is not an option in this situation. I'm stuck with spending more money than I care to, or living with a slower system, so I choose to do the latter.

You no doubt have the luxury of total freedom in how you spend your new-found wealth. I have a family to feed, and a Significant Other who takes a dim view of unnecessary expenditure on my toys.

[Update: I've weakened, and ordered a Gforce card from OWC. Hang the expense - the noise is driving me round the twist!]

 

[tao]

Back to the original question: I switched quartz off when going OS X about a year ago, because it was slow and ugly.
Since I installed 10.2.8 before it was pulled (no problems at all btw), I just switched on quartz. The text looks really nice, speed is no issue on my machine, but the pinkish color of the F1 screen text annoys me. Not sure, whether I will continue w quartz.

 

[kf97mopa]

Originally posted by AlanH

Not really, and you missed out option three - live with it.

Flashing looks to be high risk - a good chance of thowing money down the drain. And it appears to need a PC with an AGP slot, which I don't have access to. Spending time instead of money is not an option in this situation. I'm stuck with spending more money than I care to, or living with a slower system, so I choose to do the latter.

You no doubt have the luxury of total freedom in how you spend your new-found wealth. I have a family to feed, and a Significant Other who takes a dim view of unnecessary expenditure on my toys.

I never said that those were the only options - lack of both time and money is certainly one version, where living with it seems like a decent solution. If you have both time and money... just get out of here and quit showing off!


I would never buy a board to experiment on, hoping I might flash it, but I have had friends throw out Geforce2 MX boards that I might have flashed... had I had an upgradeable Mac to put it in.

 

[n8mac]

IIRC, the last time I tried quartz the text looked good on the main screen but all the advisor text looked both pinkish and double as if both the app and OS were trying to render it at once. This being 10.1.5 @civ1.21. I don't use it because of the advisor screens.

btw kf97mopa, we have the same system (strawberry)

 

[Cpl. Clegg]

If I remember correctly, one of the updates to Jaguar explicitly mentioned an improvement to Quartz rendering in Civ3, and since then performance has only got better. I'm also running 10.2.8 (no problems here), and at this point I wouldn't even consider turning off Quartz text rendering in Civ3.