Is it worth having any tourism up to the industrial age?

[Heart Break Kid]

I'm France and getting culture like a fiend, but I haven't really bothered making great artist/writers/musicians. Does it take a long time to build up tourism late game when you have so much culture?

 

[Yzman]

Tourism works on a cumulative scale. While you will produce quite a bit more later in the game, it is beneficial to be gaining it the whole time. If you are going for a cultural victory it would be hard to win not gaining any tourism until industrial era.

 

[VainoValkea]

Great Works produce culture as well, although you're getting that from Chateaus already I'd advice you to get those great works.

Besides, you might have trouble getting some theme bonuses later on, should you neglect your work production now.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Tourism works on a cumulative scale. While you will produce quite a bit more later in the game, it is beneficial to be gaining it the whole time. If you are going for a cultural victory it would be hard to win not gaining any tourism until industrial era.

I have 6 tourism with 2 cultural great people lying around (11 turns from hitting the industrial era, I believe the most tourism right now is Russia with 10-12), plus a lot of religion. Not sure if it is too late to go for a cultural victory or not.

 

[Glinda]

It's better to get Great Works early because you can set up for getting your theme bonuses more effectively, and maybe do some early swapping to get the best bonuses. Some of the later wonders are easy enough because they need works from your civ and all the same era, but earlier works will also help.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

It's better to get Great Works early because you can set up for getting your theme bonuses more effectively, and maybe do some early swapping to get the best bonuses. Some of the later wonders are easy enough because they need works from your civ and all the same era, but earlier works will also help.

How about taking works from other people? I just conquered Austria who was the #2 highest culture civ and they had a lot of works. Could this snowball to a tourism victory or would that be a long shot? (my tourism stayed the same after puppeting her capital, shouldn't it go up since I own her works?)

 

[lordrune]

How about taking works from other people? I just conquered Austria who was the #2 highest culture civ and they had a lot of works. Could this snowball to a tourism victory or would that be a long shot? (my tourism stayed the same after puppeting her capital, shouldn't it go up since I own her works?)

I'm gathering that it would work pretty well. You might want to swap works around into your old cities to really get the most out of theming bonuses - and I'm not sure how tourism works in puppet cities.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

- and I'm not sure how tourism works in puppet cities.

Now that I think about it, the city was in resistance when I wrote that.

 

[dewbak75]

Definitely start building those GWAMs early. Even if you have to stockpile them somewhere until you have Great Work slots available for them to fill. I just won a Culture victory with 6 cities around 1920-something, and I still had a lot of Great Work slots left unfilled. My nearest neighbor was France, and gaining influence over him was a bear. Next time I'm putting a lot more focus on GWAM production, and if France is on the board I'm gonna try and take him out early(I was playing as the Shoshone).

 

[TyBoy]

I haven't seen any weighting towards tourism generated early as opposed to late. I could be totally wrong about that though. It's not that the early tourism is important so much as that the things you need to be doing to generate tourism later on also generate small amounts of tourism early.

There seems to be a large difference between civs with a culture-generating UI and those without. For those with a UI, the potential explosion of tourism from that after you get hotels and airports seems to render any earlier tourism pretty inconsequential. For them, you can get a culture win without relying much at all on great works. That also means that a lack of early tourism doesn't mean much for them since the UIs don't translate into tourism until late.

I haven't gone for a culture win with a non-UI civ since BNW. It seems pretty intimidating. I'm imagining that on the highest difficulties you probably have no choice but to steal great works and the cities to contain them and possibly cripple the largest culture generators to make it work. In those cases I think a lack of pre-industrial tourism would probably be a good indicator that you won't have enough great works or buildings to house them in.

 

[joncnunn]

Having some tourism is more important in the Industrial age than before. You need enough tourism when you pick an ideology (more precisely after the AIs also starting picking different ones) to avoid unhappiness penalties even when not after a cultural victory.

But generally while you'll want enough of the basic buildings (& national wonders) to store ones you create via guilds, great wonders that don't directly help the path of victory your on are often skipped (unless there is nothing else to build.)

As to conquering a city that has a great work; you can relocate it immediately without having to wait for it to come out of resistance.

 

[phillipwyllie]

When you research archaeology that's when the fun can start. You can get +2(+4 when you complete aesthetics) in each museum if you fill them with the correct combination of artifacts. And you can steal the AI's artifacts. If you're beaten to the punch then conquest is always an option, I've found the AI is pretty good at moving it's art away from a besieged city so you may need to take that particular civ out.

 

[redwings1340]

Honestly, I've found that tourism doesn't really come in to play until archeology, when you can make it skyrocket, but the great works also provide +2 culture every turn for the rest of the game, making them generally better than the other options early game. While it seems strange to think about it in this way, I've generally been getting the great works early for the culture bonuses (the minor tourism bonuses are nice but not essential), and the golden ages/one shot culture boosts later for the gold and culture (when you want tourism, but the +2 isn't all that much). Concert tours are a late game thing I think when you are actually focusing on it.

Basically, great works early are nice, but mostly for the rest of game culture benefits rather than the tourism. Tourism comes in force with archeology, so as long as you have good late game culture and tech to get policies and buildings that support tourism, you can shift to a culture victory anytime.

I've also found that focusing on tourism and culture early is a losing strategy. Focus on tech first, and your tourism and culture will come in force late game, or naturally if you can get wonders from reaching the tech first.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Honestly, I've found that tourism doesn't really come in to play until archeology, when you can make it skyrocket, but the great works also provide +2 culture every turn for the rest of the game, making them generally better than the other options early game. While it seems strange to think about it in this way, I've generally been getting the great works early for the culture bonuses (the minor tourism bonuses are nice but not essential), and the golden ages/one shot culture boosts later for the gold and culture (when you want tourism, but the +2 isn't all that much). Concert tours are a late game thing I think when you are actually focusing on it.

Basically, great works early are nice, but mostly for the rest of game culture benefits rather than the tourism. Tourism comes in force with archeology, so as long as you have good late game culture and tech to get policies and buildings that support tourism, you can shift to a culture victory anytime.

I've also found that focusing on tourism and culture early is a losing strategy. Focus on tech first, and your tourism and culture will come in force late game, or naturally if you can get wonders from reaching the tech first.

That's how I see it, I think I'm gonna give it a shot, if all else fails I'll just try to kill whoever or go for another victory. My Civ is very well balanced, I'm strong in every aspect right now except Tourism (but strong in Culture), it's basically down to me and the other continents super power in Russia (who beats me in the demographics across the board, she built super wide).

I had a really big lead score wise, I managed to land a lot of the early wonders (King) (8, with Forbidden Palace being my last one), while generating a ton o faith and culture. I managed to land two Natural Wonders in my territory that gave off faith, happiness, culture, and I chose the Pantheon that gives culture per jungle tile (which I had at on of). So with the pimped out jungle, I've managed to land a lot of culture and science at the same time. Not to mention France's UI.

 

[Yzman]

I've had 2 culture victories so far on King, in which I focused on tourism early.

I won both games ( one as France and one as Shoshone) right around the time of hotels. In both games, I never researched the tech for airports or got to the internet.

I see people usually struggling to internet in order to be able to pull off a win. I haven't crunched the numbers, but it seems from my experience that because I start early when people have relatively little culture, it allows me to get the earlier wins without needing the late game techs.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Got my tourism to 31 just by conquering two civs and got archeology maybe 5-8 turns before, so yeah, massing tourism isn't a problem (I own a lot of sites, so archeologist can hook it up big time). I am unknown to a lot of civs though, I had bad exploration this game.

 

[Vuffster]

I've had 2 culture victories so far on King, in which I focused on tourism early.

I won both games ( one as France and one as Shoshone) right around the time of hotels. In both games, I never researched the tech for airports or got to the internet.

I see people usually struggling to internet in order to be able to pull off a win. I haven't crunched the numbers, but it seems from my experience that because I start early when people have relatively little culture, it allows me to get the earlier wins without needing the late game techs.

My experiences thus far are similar; I've won culturally 3-4 times on Prince. The only time I really needed anything past Hotels was a game in which Egypt was a bit of a runaway civ on another continent; they built so many wonders and had so much culture that it took several post-Internet Great Musicians to finish the job.