So How Bad Is It Overseas?

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Most if not pretty much all people in a country like USA probably going to have the ability to afford a computer and you can probably get a job without a college eduction or atleast not an expensive one. Like if most people can afford car in USA (which to me sounds like a way worse investment than computers) I'm sure those people could afford a computer.

Only very few workers in USA make federal minimum wage and I don't think that many make minimum wage where they live, minimum wage is extreamly bad to be making.

 

[Zardnaar]

Most if not pretty much all people in a country like USA probably going to have the ability to afford a computer and you can probably get a job without a college eduction or atleast not an expensive one.

Lol might be a bit clueless there. Most people probably do its that bottom 10-20%.

Even here I noticed it at Uni. Way people dressed, iPhone, who had laptops, tablets or nothing.

Poverty is expensive, sucks being poor, sucks even worse if your parents have addictions (mine didn't thank F).

 

[Hygro]

Seems crazy people would work for just $8h, bottom 10% compensation in USA is like $16h with wage component being $13, which is still low. Given how easy it seems to start with like $100k salary or close to it nowdays, I would expect people to make a lot more than that.

https://www.bls.gov/ecec/factsheets/compensation-percentile-estimates.htm

You can become a programmer in like a few years, maybe even less, it is not a high skilled job in itself and much of the stuff you can find on the internet. So if such job is worth like $100k, I'd assume a lot more people should be making such salaries. That seems true for a lot of higher paying jobs, they don't require particular much skills, not maybe more than could be learnt in like a year or so.

As America is not mostly programmers making over $100k, obviously some of your presuppositions need reexamining.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Median salary (not total compensation which could signifcantly higher) for computer programmers was already $93 000 2 years ago, meaning a wage growth of 3.7% for the last to years would make the median reach $100k which don't seems unrealistic at all. You can probably find many such jobs that can pay highly yet don't require that much education.

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/computer-programmers.htm

Lol might be a bit clueless there. Most people probably do its that bottom 10-20%.

Even here I noticed it at Uni. Way people dressed, iPhone, who had laptops, tablets or nothing.

Poverty is expensive, sucks being poor, sucks even worse if your parents have addictions (mine didn't thank F).

I remember people being significantly poorer in the 90s than today, yet even back during those times people had computers and other stuff, seen incomes adjusted for inflation that would put 90s 50% at like bottom 20% or something today for Sweden. And everything I can tell is that USA also was significantly poorer in the 90s than today, although how the distribution of that economic growth looks like is another question.

 

[Hygro]

Right, so you've identified the wage of a programmer, what presuppositions might need reexamining for why people who grew up on computers are choosing to accept jobs under $40k instead of becoming programmers?

 

[Zardnaar]

Median salary (not total compensation which could signifcantly higher) for computer programmers was already $93 000 2 years ago, meaning a wage growth of 3.7% for the last to years would make the median reach $100k which don't seems unrealistic at all. You can probably find many such jobs that can pay highly yet don't require that much education.

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/computer-programmers.htm


I remember people being significantly poorer in the 90s than today, yet even back during those times people had computers and other stuff, seen incomes adjusted for inflation that would put 90s 50% at like bottom 20% or something today for Sweden. And everything I can tell is that USA also was significantly poorer in the 90s than today, although how the distribution of that economic growth looks like is another question.

Computers here in the 90s were double or triple the price in real terns.

You goukd buy a computer or rent a house fir 20 weeks where I lived (not usa).

USA numbers are dragged down by tge bottom % not sure how big that is.

You're in one of the best countries in the world to be poor in. I would rather be poor here than USA.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I remember people being significantly poorer in the 90s than today, yet even back during those times people had computers and other stuff, seen incomes adjusted for inflation that would put 90s 50% at like bottom 20% or something today for Sweden. And everything I can tell is that USA also was significantly poorer in the 90s than today, although how the distribution of that economic growth looks like is another question.

??? Sounds like nonsense. The world was very different in the 90s than it is today. What do you mean by poorer? How are you measuring things? Are you looking at poverty rates? Nationally? Regionally? Are you comparing median income changes over time as if that is some measure that preempts others? You should probably stick to telling everyone how fabulous Sweden is rather than rail on about terrible other places are because they are not Sweden.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

??? Sounds like nonsense. The world was very different in the 90s than it is today. What do you mean by poorer? How are you measuring things? Are you looking at poverty rates? Nationally? Regionally? Are you comparing median income changes over time as if that is some measure that preempts others? You should probably stick to telling everyone how fabulous Sweden is rather than rail on about terrible other places are because they are not Sweden.

I don't think I ever said Sweden is actually good, honestly existence of countries are a bad thing, so Sweden is bad, just like any country is. Yes society was significantly poorer in the 90s than today, significantly more modest in terms of material goods, both in quantity and quality. Do you think society was equaly rich in let say year 1900 as today? Technology have advanced since 1900 and since 1990s which have made society and people overall richer than in the past.

 

[Zardnaar]

Sweden not perfect but it's pretty much top ten for everything on various ratings (ignoring micro/petro states and tax havens).

Probably not as amazing as a lot of people imagine especially if middle class or better.

 

[Joij21]

Has anyone thought that the surplus deaths in America could mostly be blacks and Hispanics? Especially considering the history of segregation and racism + impoverishment of said neighborhoods. Is it possible that those particular demographics are dragging the total life expectancy down? What's the life expectancy of the predominantly white areas?

Also could the reason why our life expectancy has stagnated since the 1990s be a result of the criminal reform bill that took place then? You know the one to stop all of the "super predators" by militarizing the police in black and brown neighborhoods. Perhaps this in turn lead to a substantial increase in the death rate of African Americans via police shootings, suicides/murders in prison via mass incarceration, plus further breakdown and separation of the African American household which in turn would lead to more crime causing the police to have more of an excuse for extrajudicial killings and so on.

Also didn't Reagan escalate the war on drugs in the 1980s by clamping down on the crack cocaine in black minority areas?

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2022/20220831.htm

Actually hispanics seems to have similar or slightly better life expectency than white. Asian have by far the highest, black have really poor life expectency and American Indian-Alaskan Native people's life expectency is extreamly low. Average USA life expectency is very close to the life expectency of white people.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/stati...ile:Table01_Life_expectancy_at_birth_2021.png

Asians would be on par with europe's top peformers, white and hispanic seems comparable to estonia/croatia and significantly under eu average, black comparabled to the lowest, which seems to be Bulgaria and American Indian-Alaskan Native people have far lower life expectency than any of the nations listed above and maybe comparable to a country like Sudan.

So by those numbers, the only group in USA that don't seems to be at an life expectency disadvantage compared to EU's best peformers is asians, every other group is at a substansial disadvantage. Black are significantly worse of than white, but white is not doing well either.

 

[Joij21]

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2022/20220831.htm

Actually hispanics seems to have similar or slightly better life expectency than white. Asian have by far the highest, black have really poor life expectency and American Indian-Alaskan Native people's life expectency is extreamly low. Average USA life expectency is very close to the life expectency of white people.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/stati...ile:Table01_Life_expectancy_at_birth_2021.png

Asians would be on par with europe's top peformers, white and hispanic seems comparable to estonia/croatia and significantly under eu average, black comparabled to the lowest, which seems to be Bulgaria and American Indian-Alaskan Native people have far lower life expectency than any of the nations listed above and maybe comparable to a country like Sudan.

How much does death from crime related violence factor into overall life expectancy statistics? Could this point to some kind of general racial disharmony?

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

It should be a part of it. Black seems to be pretty much disadvantaged in everything.

It would be interesting to know why asian seems to do so far better than all the other groups in USA when it comes to life expectency, like blacks asians are a minority, but yet seems to be in the complete opposite situation by outdoing the white majority by far.

 

[Zardnaar]

It should be a part of it.

It would be interesting to know why asian seems to do so far better than all the other groups in USA when it comes to life expectency.

Alot wilbe immigrants and to get visas you pretty much have to be middle to upper class.

The Asian poor are still back in Asia living in slums or rubbish dumps depending on the country.

Also diet. Asian diets tend to be healthier.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

The difference seems so huge however, probably take a lot to explain it.

 

[Tee Kay]

It would be interesting to know why asian seems to do so far better than all the other groups in USA when it comes to life expectency, like blacks asians are a minority, but yet seems to be in the complete opposite situation by outdoing the white majority by far.

There would be a small effect due to genetics + cultural heritage, given that East Asian countries' life expectancies tend to outperform other countries at a similar GDP per capita.

But a lot would just be self-selection. Asian Americans are mostly middle class immigrants or descendents of middle class immigrants living mostly middle class existence.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Alot wilbe immigrants and to get visas you pretty much have to be middle to upper class.

The Asian poor are still back in Asia living in slums or rubbish dumps depending on the country.

Also diet. Asian diets tend to be healthier.

Perhaps these two statements should be further apart.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

The news are also pretty much always negative, so the people you see are those that doing poorly, which is not the average person in like any rich country. So instead of seeing people like in my situation who can buy like a property in 1 year of saving from work, working like 1700h with like total compensation of $90k, you see like people who make $40-50k, work 2000 hours, in debt with health issues and such.

Median compensation is like $60-80k for full time job but people talk about those that make like 10-25% compensation and make that sound like the normal. Also add in living in expensive areas rather than cheap ones, like you can make $100k in a place like Detroit, which probably way cheaper than San Fransico.

 

[Gorbles]

Median compensation is like $60-80k for full time job but people talk about those that make like 10-25% compensation and make that sound like the normal.

$60k is a lot closer to your "$40 - $50k" than it is $90k.

Your extrapolations rely far too heavily on the people who are fine. Society is made up of a lot more folks than that. Even folks on more money can still have health issues that change their outgoings.

(there's also a discussion to be had on median vs. mean, and how that actually represents income levels)

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

$90k or $50/h is just like top 25% compensation in countries like Sweden or USA. Like starting salary for a tech company, junior programmer, I guess the people I work with paid maybe around $70/h and I don't know how restricted stock units work but those I we will eventually get.

In my area I could buy like a 110m apparment or something right now, major drawback is the travel time to office is I want to be there. More expensive there I work but nothing like San Fransico level, more like Detroit level by looking at the prices.