Is Magic...Real?

[CivCube]

Let me ask you something. Do you believe that magic is a true force in this world? What are the moral repercussions from such a thing? What makes it a real force?

 

[Truronian]

I'd say no. No reason to believe in it, science works much better as a model, and is much more predictable.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

As Im sure will be repeated ad nauseum in this thread, magic is whatever we cant understand.

 

[skadistic]

Are we talking illusion and slight of hand majic or fantasy majic?

 

[warpus]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. " - Arthur C. Clarke

 

[Yeeek]

Magic as in tossing fire balls out of your hands and lifting cars by waving your left finger? If thats case, i'm afraid i don't believe in this, thats just pure fantasy.

If you meant unexplained phenomeon, then perhaps. There has been cases of very weird stuff happening here and there.

 

[pboily]

or

"Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology." - Pratchett

"If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced." - Asimov

"Any sufficiently arcane magic is indistinguishable from technology." - Dr. Who

 

[Hundegesicht]

Oh yes, I believe in magic very much. In fact, I'm kind of a magician myself... my greatest trick is making any lady who sets eyes upon me become hopelessly smitten forevermore.

To be more serious, I've seen plenty of magical stuff done in my life. Some of it's illusion/tricks of the mind, and the rest things we still haven't figured out. <insert B.E.'s little post here, etc.>

 

[CivCube]

To be honest, I am actually looking for a response from the more conservative mindset. I am curious as to how they can explain their world.

 

[Civrules]

I don't think it's real... but don't ask me how people walk on water with no strings attached and with people in the pool. And don't ask me how they stand on a table in front of other people, put on some blanket, and disappear.

It's very cool though - but it isn't a force of nature. It's just very clever deception that very few people can master and figure out.

The thing is that for the things we do figure out, you get this sudden "Ohhh!!! Why didn't I think of that?" feeling.

 

[CurtSibling]

Any advanced technology that cannot be explained to a primitive is 'magic.'

Think about this:
We use computer machines to manipulate energy - With the ability to create and
communicate using invisible and incredible forces...We store these massive worlds
and communities on an plane called the 'internet' - But it is an ethereal thing
that does not really exist, save in a dimension of electronic power...

Is this not magic? Are programmers not sorcerers? I think so.

.

 

[.Shane.]

I'm not sure I understand the point of the original questoin... Are there people who actually believe in magic? If you mean psychics, paranormals, blah blah blah, then sure, there are dupes err... people who believe in that.

Personally, all that stuff is hokum to me.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I believe that everything can be explained by science. If we discover a source or an energy or something that cannot be explained by science, then rather than writing it off as "magic", we will investigate it until we have a scientific explanation, and then it can be explained by science. Simple as that.

 

[Civrules]

Any advanced technology that cannot be explained to a primitive is 'magic.'

Think about this:
We use computer machines to manipulate energy - With the ability to create and
communicate using invisible and incredible forces...We store these massive worlds
and communities on an plane called the 'internet' - But it is an ethereal thing
that does not really exist, save in a dimension of electronic power...

Is this not magic? Are programmers not sorcerers? I think so.

.

Magic involves the "supernatural," that is, what goes beyond what we understand. We sure understand the general gist of programming and the internet, so I wouldn't classify programmers as magicians since there's nothing supernatural in what they do.

And I don't believe in the supernatural. I'm just saying that we don't really understand how some magic is performed. But I agree with Eran that it can be explained by science.

 

[warpus]

I believe that everything can be explained by science. If we discover a source or an energy or something that cannot be explained by science, then rather than writing it off as "magic", we will investigate it until we have a scientific explanation, and then it can be explained by science. Simple as that.

So would you say that God is constrained by the laws of the Universe?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

So would you say that God is constrained by the laws of the Universe?

Absolutely He is. Thus not only can He not do the logically impossible (like the stone so heavy He can't lift it) but He is constrained by other laws such as justice and mercy, and He operates within physical laws. I believe He can do things that are outside the physical laws we know, not by breaking them but by appealing to physical laws/forces so advanced that humans can't understand them.

 

[warpus]

Absolutely He is. Thus not only can He not do the logically impossible (like the stone so heavy He can't lift it) but He is constrained by other laws such as justice and mercy, and He operates within physical laws. I believe He can do things that are outside the physical laws we know, not by breaking them but by appealing to physical laws/forces so advanced that humans can't understand them.

Would that not make him all-powerful? Or do Mormons not believe in an all-powerful God? (I'm really not sure if you do or not)

 

[Narz]

I got the magic stick
Shorty don't believe me, then come with me tonight
And I'll show you maaagic
(What? What?) Maaagic
I got the magic stick

Anyway, I believe in magic, for sure (and he ain't wearing big red shoes, although I suppose it's magic the poor children can survive McDonalds). I don't see a divide between magic and nature/natural laws though. If you can't see magic in flowers, trees, women, sociology, economics, human ingenuity, the human brain, etc. you need to open your ideas wider.

 

[Narz]

Agree with Curt. By the way, nice thread Cube.

and talking of programming, I thought you were "busy".

j/k, it's all good.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Would that not make him all-powerful? Or do Mormons not believe in an all-powerful God? (I'm really not sure if you do or not)

We believe Him to be all-powerful in the sense that He can do anything allowed by the laws of the universe, but He is not omnipotent as the term is usually understood.