Is man 'programmed' to seek a 'god'?

[kochman]

No. But we are "programmed" to look for meanings and patterns, which often leads to religion. It's been observed in pigeons too, I believe, so there is no reason to believe we're unique in that sense. It's just that our imagination allows us to invent Gods where there in fact are none.

Ummm... that's, like, your opinion, man... not fact.

What sort of evolutionary advantage would there be to such a gene? (didn't read the article)

All genes have an evolutionary importance?

IDK about that... but, we could say that it would lead us to strive for something higher, and not be as base as the rest of the animals on the planet... if it were genetic.

I don't think it is genetic at all... I think it is in your soul, or isn't.
People are different.
As a believer I often wonder why some people don't have it? Every time, my conclusion is, I have no friggin' idea.

 

[Winner]

Well some little known journal called Nature published a book review.

http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v36/n12/full/ng1204-1241.html

Paywall.

Anyway, the title itself is totally suspect - like "hm, I wonder what kind of a title will sell my crap theory book the best in America... Yeah, let's call it the 'God Gene'!"

Christ. And this obsession with genes doesn't apply only to complex human behaviours, newspapers are full of articles like "Scientists found the gene that makes you get influenza" and similar horse manure. What they mean is of course "Someone found a gene which, if activated by very complex processes, can under some very specific conditions make someone more susceptible to influenza-like infections".

Human behaviour such as religious thought is such a complex phenomenon that it cannot be pinned down to a gene. So unless the book title is totally misleading and the book actually makes that clear, it's crap no serious person should bother with.

Ummm... that's, like, your opinion, man... not fact.

No, that's a fact. Unless there is a scientific proof of a God-like entity, it simply isn't there. And don't even try arguing with all that agnostic nonsense how we can't know and must therefore assume that any number of ridiculous assertions might be true.

 

[kochman]

No, that's a fact. Unless there is a scientific proof of a God-like entity, it simply isn't there. And don't even try arguing with all that agnostic nonsense how we can't know and must therefore assume that any number of ridiculous assertions might be true.

You can't be serious...
So, because the Soviets got into space, and God wasn't there to greet them, He doesn't exist?

Even the most ardent atheist admits that their belief that there is no God is their STRONG opinion, and not fact...

 

[Kyriakos]

Who knows, maybe we are both puppets and puppeteers, a puppeteer who injected his psyche onto the puppet, but it is still moving by the hands of the automaton that now is the puppeteer

I like gloomy images

 

[warpus]

All genes have an evolutionary importance?

They evolved, didn't they? They were molded by evolutionary forces.

 

[civ2]

Difference between the belief in G-d and belief in (what was it?) Cosmic Clowns, is that there is no one who claimed ever being contacted by a CC, nor there are any books on it that mention 3 million people witnessing an event.
So the belief in G-d has a much higher credibility than all "fake/made up for fun" "beliefs" people were talking on this forum ever since.
Also, as I said somewhere today, it's all boils down to personal preferences - "to believe or not to believe - that's the question".

 

[warpus]

Difference between the belief in G-d and belief in (what was it?) Cosmic Clowns, is that there is no one who claimed ever being contacted by a CC, nor there are any books on it that mention 3 million people witnessing an event.
So the belief in G-d has a much higher credibility than all "fake/made up for fun" "beliefs" people were talking on this forum ever since.
Also, as I said somewhere today, it's all boils down to personal preferences - "to believe or not to believe - that's the question".

That's not really such a big difference. It is essentially reduces to the Argumentum ad populum logical fallacy.

 

[kochman]

Witnesses... that's a bit different.

And no, not all genes are needed, you surely realize this.

 

[warpus]

Witnesses... that's a bit different.

And no, not all genes are needed, you surely realize this.

Sure, but they are all there due for evolutionary reasons. And if there is such a thing as a "God gene", then there must be an evolutionary advantage for that gene - otherwise it wouldn't have evolved to exist. That's what I was inquiring about - if there's a hypothesis about a potential evolutionary advantage of such a thing that would give a group of protohumans that has it an edge over a group of protohumans that doesn't.

 

[kochman]

Sure, but they are all there due for evolutionary reasons. And if there is such a thing as a "God gene", then there must be an evolutionary advantage for that gene - otherwise it wouldn't have evolved to exist. That's what I was inquiring about - if there's a hypothesis about a potential evolutionary advantage of such a thing that would give a group of protohumans that has it an edge over a group of protohumans that doesn't.

Well, the term "evolutionary advantage" is pretty vague...
I mean, there are genes for all sorts of "disadvantages" (illnesses, etc), but you could make the argument that they are "advantageous" to evolution of the species (survival of the fittest, etc).

 

[El_Machinae]

I think we do instinctively seek a god. Lots of people like higher purposes: we see this in nationalism and other 'isms'. Heck, if we discuss the space program, people will drop in 'for the good of humanity' as if the collective superorganism mattered as a cohesive whole. As well, the nearly universe embracing of the supernatural as a source of guidance and purpose.

 

[Winner]

I think we do instinctively seek a god. Lots of people like higher purposes: we see this in nationalism and other 'isms'. Heck, if we discuss the space program, people will drop in 'for the good of humanity' as if the collective superorganism mattered as a cohesive whole. As well, the nearly universe embracing of the supernatural as a source of guidance and purpose.

As I said - people are predisposed to look for purpose in things that have none. It's been documented on children, who often think about things this way - what is the purpose of the grass? It's there for the animals to eat. Why the sun shines? So that we can see and be warm. Etc.

I'd say we have an impulse to look for purpose and meaning in everything, to seek how we fit into the greater scheme of things. Sadly, most people direct this tendency towards religion, which offers the lowliest intellectual fulfilment. You mentioned nationalism and other ideologies, which are indeed very similar to religion in terms of their function in the society.

But I wouldn't call it a "religious impulse", because religion is just of the possible outlets.

You can't be serious...
So, because the Soviets got into space, and God wasn't there to greet them, He doesn't exist?

No, he doesn't exist because in our whole history we haven't found the tiniest bit of evidence that would support this hypothesis. I am actually more willing to believe that Elvis is alive than that there is a god as postulated by the major religions.

Even the most ardent atheist admits that their belief that there is no God is their STRONG opinion, and not fact...

They're just being polite. We know for a fact that God doesn't exist, just as we know for a fact that there is no USS Enterprise, 1701-E, orbiting Earth with Captain Picard on board. What? You say it's cloaked so we can't see it? Oh, come on...

 

[warpus]

As I said - people are predisposed to look for purpose in things that have none. It's been documented on children, who often think about things this way - what is the purpose of the grass? It's there for the animals to eat. Why the sun shines? So that we can see and be warm. Etc.

I'd say we have an impulse to look for purpose and meaning in everything, to seek how we fit into the greater scheme of things. Sadly, most people direct this tendency towards religion, which offers the lowliest intellectual fulfilment. You mentioned nationalism and other ideologies, which are indeed very similar to religion in terms of their function in the society.

But I wouldn't call it a "religious impulse", because religion is just of the possible outlets.

But there is something curious about humans that pushes them towards religion and religious experiences. Scientists were able to reproduce these "mystical" religious experiences in a lab setting by screwing around with the brain. When they turned on their device, you'd have a "religious experience".

So our brains seem to be for some reason wired to experience these things, which probably influenced early man to seek out god and the supernatural

 

[GoodGame]

AT OP: I doubt it, or we wouldn't have secular humanists.

 

[Winner]

But there is something curious about humans that pushes them towards religion and religious experiences. Scientists were able to reproduce these "mystical" religious experiences in a lab setting by screwing around with the brain. When they turned on their device, you'd have a "religious experience".

So our brains seem to be for some reason wired to experience these things, which probably influenced early man to seek out god and the supernatural

Well, sure you can achieve all kinds of weird experiences when you mess with the brain. Those of us who've experimented with drugs know that very well I just don't like the notion that people are hardwired for religion. That's not true - we may be hardwired to seek higher purpose, as ElMachinae said, but religion is just one of the ways this impulse can be satisfied.

Say, I am a big believer in the European project, so this could be seen as my "higher purpose". Someone else may find a completely different non-religious way of pursuing this tendency. Religion as always tries to usurp human nature and twist it for its own purpose, to justify its own existence.

 

[Kyriakos]

FWIW i did not claim that the need for religion may be innate; only the idea of a deity. The two are not one and the same, religion being the organized practice of seemingly arbitrary customs which serve as a passage to the deity worshiped. Whereas the idea of a deity does not presuppose that a deity is sought; it does not presuppose even that a deity exists, it simply means that one is able to seek it, something generally obvious- to end like i started- IMO

 

[kochman]

They're just being polite. We know for a fact that God doesn't exist, just as we know for a fact that there is no USS Enterprise, 1701-E, orbiting Earth with Captain Picard on board. What? You say it's cloaked so we can't see it? Oh, come on...

No, you're just being impolite. It is your opinion, and nothing more than that.
There is evidence out there, look it up... I'm not going to try to convince you, nor should you try to convince me, as it comes down to personal choice/thinking/what have you.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

We know we're going to die, and we're not too pleased with the idea. Religion/spirituality/whatever is all the result of human vanity. We don't want to be annihilated, so we make up fantasies to comfort ourselves. We aren't "programmed" to this behavior, just extremely susceptible to it.

 

[GoodGame]

FWIW i did not claim that the need for religion may be innate; only the idea of a deity. The two are not one and the same, religion being the organized practice of seemingly arbitrary customs which serve as a passage to the deity worshiped. Whereas the idea of a deity does not presuppose that a deity is sought; it does not presuppose even that a deity exists, it simply means that one is able to seek it, something generally obvious- to end like i started- IMO

Your thread title is misleading then, and you do re-state it in the OP.

I have no opinion of whether or not ideas are hard-coded. I'm comfortable to accept that we really do have a biological process of de novo learning and memory formation, and such learning can propagate socially, across generations. So I accept that the idea of god doesn't need to be pre-programmed genetically, for it to exist in the human psyche.

 

[NetGear]

Not god exactly. But people are superstitious, seek patterns and meanings. And tend to anthromorphize things and be shamanistic when they don't know any better. So leap toward god isn't that hard for humanity.