is reloading an unwritten rule of fail?

[dirtyparrot]

The #1 rule is to have fun. You shouldn't care what any of us think if you're enjoying the way you play. That being said, I think that reloading and trying a new strategy offers good opportunities to learn and experiment.

 

[Loki Strikes]

I don't consider a win that I reloaded in to be a win(I will reload if its close just to go by a what if, but I count it a loss), however reloading games can be an excellent learning tool. I may play a particular game to lib several times to optimize, reloading helps a lot in learning how to optimize gameplay. This has helped me immensely in learning immortal/deity(more deity than immortal)

 

[Steenberger]

I used to reload in order to win battles.. any battle, really.
But lately I try only to reload to redo my strategy. That is hard. But thn again, I have obviously miscalculated when my own SoD is mopping up the Germans while Wang Kon's SoD has just announced its arrival at my capital.

 

[lymond]

I honestly used to reload all the time before I came to this forum and started playing CIV right. I would reload a lot during battles, especially when highly promoted units were killed - just pizzed me off. Having learned a lot of this forum, I know how to better wage war (although still a lot to learn in the late game) and also know that high promoted units are rare. Playing the GOTMs have really helped me practice this approach and stay true to the rule.

Looking back at how I used to play, I recall that reloading is generally fairly tedious and just makes the game much longer. Playing it straight is more rewarding. Now the only time I reload is when I'm just playing a casual game and testing out a strategy. I think reloading is fine as a learning tool. However, if your intent is to play the game the way it's meant to be played, then no reloading for you.

 

[Derp]

Like most folks have said already, reload if that's what floats your boat, you payed for it, and you're entitled to get the most fun you can out of it!
That said, I never reload, it just completely destroys the immersion factor for me, which is a huge reason why I play.

 

[DMOC]

I reload extensively in my games, mainly to see what would happen if I did x instead of y and to cover up the 20 or so misclicks and absentminded moves I average per game (sometimes the wireless mouse connection gets a little fuzzy ... and sometimes I end up gifting 7 techs to an AI unintentionally). These pertain to games I play privately.

 

[Negator_UK]

in essence- "i was uncoordinated and bumbling so its the games fault"- cheat

Its the games user interface thats uncoordinated and bumbling, so as long as you don't take advantage of any ill-gotten information, then this is definitely not a cheat.

 

[troytheface]

"Its the games user interface thats uncoordinated and bumbling,"

in essence- "The game's interface is more than i can handle to play Civ4 and i need to reload to compensate" - cheat

no compromise

 

[Acidrain]

Reloading is fail in my eyes.
You tech towards some non-military tech and discover 4x stack barbarian spears come towards you, but you dont have any techs which allow you train better units than warriors. Spears cripple your start by destroying or taking your city.

You reload the game from a save and know that spears are coming. You tech towards military tech which allow you build better units, instead of your old way, to defend that attack.

That's... stupid in my opinion. You always must be prepeared for everything. You always must think what can come to you and play like that, that's the fun part imo. I personally dont see the fun in reloading. Bad habbit imo. In real life you dont have reloading choice, better get used with that.

I must agree with the crazy person troytheface this time.

 

[Diegosto]

"Hideous keypunch or mouse click error"

in essence- "i was uncoordinated and bumbling so its the games fault"- cheat

That's like a "despot" teacher. ?...mistake, or a moment of careless..? in a situation like that reloading is not cheating...

"In war, if a soldier accidentally pulls the trigger, the bullet doesn't come back for a replay."

are you people serious? that's not the concentration tested that's your strategies, decisions tested...

And another thing ....is playing with the lower levels, a kind of cheating in your opinion (the forum members) ? or turning off some game settings...is it cheating?

sorry for language mistakes.

 

[JTMacc99]

Reloading is fail in my eyes.
You tech towards some non-military tech and discover 4x stack barbarian spears come towards you, but you don't have any techs which allow you train better units than warriors. Spears cripple your start by destroying or taking your city.

You reload the game from a save and know that spears are coming. You tech towards military tech which allow you build better units, instead of your old way, to defend that attack.

That's... stupid in my opinion. You always must be prepared for everything. You always must think what can come to you and play like that, that's the fun part imo. I personally dont see the fun in reloading. Bad habit imo. In real life you don't have reloading choice, better get used with that.

I must agree with the crazy person troytheface this time.

Well, in the situation you are describing, it is essentially reloading because you thought you could get away with something and didn't. A lot of the people here are talking about using the reload to practice different scenarios. It's two different things. Your scenario is one where a person was trying to get away with something, failed, and then went back and played the way he knew he should have played from the start. Other people are describing a scenario where they are intentionally attempting different strategies to see what will happen.

I should also note that the Barb Uprising you describe is one of those things that people actually turn off as part of the game settings. Should we consider disabling random events a cheat? What if you like random events, but think that the barb uprising is an unusually unfair random event that no player should ever have to deal with? Would it be okay for a person to pull a Kirk and alter the program to remove that event from the coding but not okay for a person to go into the worldbuilder and delete the barb stack should it ever show up?

To me, it's all a matter of what drives your enjoyment from this game.

 

[JackRules]

I only play the game for my own enjoyment. I don't play in any competitions or sg's, and I don't post games here on the forums. Still, I don't reload. I do reroll starts to get something I am willing to go forward with. And if I am playing a game that seems unwinnable to me, I will start a new game. However, I think what you do in the privacy of your own CIV reality is totally up to each and every one of you.

 

[cabert]

although troy's arguments are as close to stupid as it gets, reloading under any circumstances is cheating

do you mind me cheating?
no

I don't mind you cheating either.

Now, if we're talking about some kind of competition, be it simply saying "I'm consistently winning at level X", no cheating can be allowed.
I was once very comfortable with the game, and was almost sure to win any emperor game I started. I stopped playing a while, and now I reload a bit on monarch, because I forgot some basic stuff. Thus, I'm not even competitive on monarch anymore.
If I want to recover my skill, I need to play through a few games, on some higher level, and accept a few losses.
If I keep reloading, I'll never know what level I can really master.

 

[troytheface]

<snip>. I can't discern from their likes.



no compromise

Moderator Action: Trolling - warned
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[DMOC]

Reloading is fail in my eyes.
You tech towards some non-military tech and discover 4x stack barbarian spears come towards you, but you dont have any techs which allow you train better units than warriors. Spears cripple your start by destroying or taking your city.

You reload the game from a save and know that spears are coming. You tech towards military tech which allow you build better units, instead of your old way, to defend that attack.

That's... stupid in my opinion. You always must be prepeared for everything. You always must think what can come to you and play like that, that's the fun part imo. I personally dont see the fun in reloading. Bad habbit imo. In real life you dont have reloading choice, better get used with that.

I must agree with the crazy person troytheface this time.

So how do we prepare for these barbarian spears on turn 30 without crippling our overall development if there isn't a barbarian uprising? I would always reload for those circumstances, period, since I don't think it's fair for the purpose of the game to have something like this happen. Good thing I don't play HoF which prevents me from doing so.

I wonder when TMIT will comment on this issue in this thread.

 

[Woodreaux]

I decide before starting a game whether it's a preseason scrimmage or an actual game. For practice games I use the world builder and reload shamelessly. In real life, the head coach can call back and redo plays whenever it is required, the same applies whenever I'm practicing.
But for serious games I don't reload; it's cheating. I don't do HoF or multiplayer games, just stand alone Single Player games with no human opponents or community to cheat. But I consider it cheating myself out of a chance to enjoy earning a legitimate, well deserved victory. I used to reload all of the time, but I found my technique was not improving. I stopped doing it a couple of years ago and I've begun really enjoying the game a lot more.

Now if someone else plays with reloads, and they're enjoying themselves: good for them. They bought the game and they're entitled to enjoy it anyway they see fit.

 

[ppciv4]

mostly people don't want face his own death, but everyone dies.
just live with it, no matter what trouble or mistake.
being cool can offer you more chance of sex, women like it.
but not the childish style of cool I'm talking about.

 

[Thor7]

I reload all the time, hell, I use worldbuilder frequently. Seriously it's a one player game, none of us care what you do, enjoy it.

I'll put a different spin on it: It's fun to play on a difficulty level one or two above your ability then give yourself some extra resources to keep up. You end up getting to have the battles of say king or emperor, you get the better decision making of those ai difficulties but without the huge production penalties. I find emperor AI more aggressive, harder to manipulate diplomatically and they build much bigger armies, which is a lot of fun to play against, but I need a little help to beat them. Try it some time, it's fun.

 

[LiquidSwords]

It could be considered cheating, but I think it's a valuable learning experience. Good for testing new strategies, gambits, etc. Which is why I do it. And it's not as bad as using Worldbuilder, which I only use in case of Vedic Aryans.

 

[naterator]

cheat
VERB:
cheat·ed , cheat·ing , cheats
VERB:
tr.

To deceive by trickery; swindle: cheated customers by overcharging them for purchases.
To deprive by trickery; defraud: cheated them of their land.
To mislead; fool: illusions that cheat the eye.
To elude; escape: cheat death.
VERB:
intr.

To act dishonestly; practice fraud.
To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.
Informal To be sexually unfaithful: cheat on a spouse.
NOUN:

An act of cheating; a fraud or swindle.
One who cheats; a swindler.
Law Fraudulent acquisition of another's property.
Botany An annual European species of brome grass (Bromus secalinus) widely naturalized in temperate regions.

Reloading is a deliberate violation of the rules of the game, ergo, by definition, it IS cheating. Even if nowhere in the manual does it say "thou shalt not reload", it is an obvious violation of the spirit of a fair game. for example, If you reload after losing a 90% battle because you should have won, do you also reload after winning a 10% battle because you should have lost? Nobody? Didn't think so. So it's an unfair advantage, it's cheating, no big deal.

The question is not one of ethics, it's not wrong to cheat the AI, it doesn't make you a bad person or a bad civ player even; but you're deluding yourself if you think it's not cheating just because there's no human opponent. It's like playing solitaire while looking under all the cards to see which moves benefit you most in the long haul. No opponent, not wrong or bad, still cheating. Single player or multi, rules are rules.

You can justify it to yourself by saying it's for learining purposes, but be honest with yourself, you're still cheating in the specific game you're reloading.

Like others have said, it's your game, do as you will. I'm not telling anyone not to cheat, heck, i cheat, I'll reload if i want to try another path after i fail, but i consider those games losses and in the rare event i finish one i'll delete the replay so as not to pollute my high scores. I'll reload if i make a devastating mis-click like "will you accept cease fire" when i mean to click "what is the price for peace", i don't feel bad about that, i leave them in my high scores, i cheated. Living with the miss-click should be the price i pay for having a wireless mouse on my la-z-boy inxtead of having a stable surface and paying attention like i should. In multiplayer, it WOULD be the price i pay. In singleplayer, it's a victimless crime, so rock on, nobody's gonna call the cops.