is the great scientist too powerful?

is the great scientist too powerful?

  • Yes, too powerful.

    Votes: 113 57.9%

  • No, it is balanced.

    Votes: 65 33.3%

  • No, it is weak.

    Votes: 3 1.5%

  • Other.

    Votes: 14 7.2%
  • Total voters
    195
L

linfeixb27

Warlord
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
120
Location
Beijing
I don't know whether it has been discussed in the forum, but I think the great scientist is too powerful. in civ4 one can use it to find a tech, but one cannot choose, and the tech may be too big to finish so one needs to really tech it using some beakers. But in civ5 one can use the GS to find any tech he/she wants instantly, even a big tech.
And I think it should be balanced.
 
Has been discussed a lot, and yes, I think he is. Add to this that scientists are the best specialists by far.
 
yeah... free tech + picking the tech of your choice is just too much. At the very least, they need to change it so it's like the great artist, where you can't use two culture bombs in a row.
 
Other - too early to tell. It's clear many things doesn't work as intended here. Probably in the right context the GS would be just fine. Or maybe not. Too early to tell, lets wait for some patches. At the moment the game is too easy with or without GS.
 
He should give a fixed based on era amount of bulbs instead of just popping a tech.
 
There isn't much balance in the game, so it is hard to judge any one feature. Are scientists too strong, or relative alternative teching too weak, or is it that units don't build fast enough? Any of that (or none of it) might be true.
 
Well, I did play a science game as Babylon and really abused the special ability with gaining GS twice as fast. And yes, it gave me a huge techlead with a small 4 city empire.

But on the other hand, beaker generating isn't that balanced either with the large empire warring approach gives you far too many beakers with no or little developement more than alot of cities and population. To counter that as a small empire you really need the GS to pop your way up the science tree.

Or perhaps it's balanced, and the GS is there for the small empire to counter the warmonger that really hasn't the time to build any libs, unis etc.
 
I think they are. But it is not the singular one that is that bad, its when you have 2 or 3 to use.
Really researching tech comes pretty fast so there is almost no downside to waiting a little bit to use one. So the longer you wait, the more bang for your buck. I think they should probably cap them (maybe 500 beakers or something). That way you can still get some of the early techs in one turn, but you can't necessarily bulb through 2-3 techs at once and make large jumps.
 
GS are definitely too powerful. Any tech you want no matter the cost is too much. I still think being able to choose the tech is fine, just it shouldn't finish the whole tech, it should be a set amount of beakers based on era, similar to how the GE works.

I also think the scientist specialist is too powerful relative to the other specialists. I've never popped a GM before because Market only gives you one merchant specialist and it sucks compared to the 3 science of a scientist. Don't get me wrong, I think the scientist specialist is fine where it is, just the other specialists need to be buffed.
 
KCMcG said:
I still think being able to choose the tech is fine, just it shouldn't finish the whole tech, it should be a set amount of beakers based on era, similar to how the GE works.
Click to expand...

GE's are pretty damn overpowered, too, imho. I think that if GS's and GE's offer you half of the value of the tech (and wonder) you are currently working on, it would be a much better balance.

I think that the only one that offers that sweet spot of balance is the Great Merchant. Great Artists aren't far off, either, although their greatest strength is their tile upgrade.

Generals are worthless except for starting Golden Ages. Occasionally, I'll build a citadel with them, depending on how the AI's are treating me.
 
TheMeInTeam said:
There isn't much balance in the game, so it is hard to judge any one feature. Are scientists too strong, or relative alternative teching too weak, or is it that units don't build fast enough? Any of that (or none of it) might be true.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Its all relative. Yes you can say they are too pwerful compared to merchants.How about compared to RA? you can still trade RA with all civs (resurect some if needed) and get much faster teching then a queue of scientists....
 
I haven't really gotten them that much, but I suppose if I did a Specialist Economy with them I'd find them overpowered.
 
I think yes, not because it's some unbelievable unit, but because it's so much better than other GPs and the specialists seem to be so much better than other specialists.
 
I think the GS (and pretty much all GP) is a combination of too strong and too weak.

Bulbing is overpowered and I think if the raised the maintenance cost of the GS it would help encourage people from waiting for a better tech to bulb, or make each bulb result in fewer beakers, similar to the way they do for golden ages.

Now that being said the tile improvement is pitiful. Only four science on a single tile is really weak (probably why some people said too weak) epically when it replaces any other improvement that's on the tile and can be pillaged. With the right civics even a trading post is supposed to give you two (for now only one) and you will get the extra gold too.

I think they need to improve the settling for all great people so that it can stack on the improvement the tile already has, this way it might actually be useful to plant some GP instead of only using them for Golden Ages and bulbing.
 
Academy is 5 science base. Game lasts what, 330 turns on king? So thats 1550 science max (not counting bonuses from buildings).

Ancient : 20-70 science, 300 turns left or so in game, Academy definetly better
Classical : 80-150 science, 280 turns left or so in game, academy definetly better
Medieval : 250-440 science, 180 turns left in game? Academy still definetly better
Renaissance: 650-1425, academy is marginal
Industrial: 1680-2200, definetly get the free tech
Modern: 2600-3350, free tech is better, no question
Future: 3350-4000, free tech is better, no question

From that I would say that up until the renaissance, academies are definitely better. Especially when paired with building bonuses.
 
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