Is the Internet more liberal than conservative?

[Stapel]

Yeah, that's pretty much how it is.

I can't think of any special reason as to why it is that way. Maybe it's that the internet allows you to find out more about the world itself? Hell, but then I look at myself, who pores over news from other countries daily, and is one of the most conservative people on this forum.

Generally, people get more liberal when the encounter more cultures, peoples and behaviours.

It kinda explains rural conservatism and urban liberalism.


Generally........

 

[Stapel]

i think that it's similar to what the print media is in the US: overtly liberal (for the most part).

Journalist are usually people that get a lot of information. The more information from different views people get, the more likely they are to understand and thus tolerate other views!

If a conservative journalist whitnesses a teenage girl, living in crapholia city, giving birth to a baby without a decent chance of proper education, with no father around, for the 5th time in a month, he might reconsider his opinion on abortus and regard it as something different than a brutal murder.

Not saying he will or should radically changes his views. Just saying he is likely to become more tolerant.

Of course, there are opposite effects. Sometimes, people can radically change towards a more 'strict' opinion. But generally, people get more understanding when they actually learn more.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Hadn't noticed this comment till stapel quoted it....

i think that it's similar to what the print media is in the US: overtly liberal (for the most part).

You should take a look at some European media, the American media I have seen has all seemed Conservative in comparisson!

Try

www.independent.co.uk

for a start, thats the paper I read, I think that right-wing America would consider it 'ultra-liberal', whilst I consider it the least biased paper in the UK.

Anyway, give it a look and tell me what you think, i'd be intrested to know how you compare it with US media (If anyone else wants to compare as well, pelase do!)

 

[Rik Meleet]

<off topic>

(..) I attribute this to meeting so many liberals and alot of anti-Americans. (..)

Please comment on Anti-Americanism after reading this post in this thread.

At the moment it seems the conclusion is that Anti-Americanism is the correct attitude for non-Americans. In other words: "Anti-Americans" is a logical synonym for "Non-American-citizen". I'd be interested to hear your opinion on Anti-Americanism.

<on topic>Besides all points made previously, I think psychology plays a role. The opinions you don't agree with tend to be remembered. If you aren't a liberal, you'd remember the opinions of your opponents (in your case liberals) and over time you enlarge the quantity in your mind.

 

[Stapel]

I think CFC is more liberal myself. No offense but you're ultra liberal/left wing.

Zulu is absolutely no liberal! He is very much in favour of taking many liberties away from people!

He most defenitely an ultra-left-winger. So bad, I've stopped reading his posts/threads.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Zulu is absolutely no liberal! He is very much in favour of taking many liberties away from people!

He most defenitely an ultra-left-winger. So bad, I've stopped reading his posts/threads.

Are you talking economic liberties or social liberties??

Please elaborate, because that is quite a claim to make.

I mean, would you say I wanted to take people's liberties away because I believe in using taxes to fund the wealfare state? I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to make money, i'm just saying it should be taxed so that those people and others less fortunate can have free healthcare.....

(I don't mean to respond for Zulu or anything, it's just that I often agree with many of the points he makes!)

Besides all points made previously, I think psychology plays a role. The opinions you don't agree with tend to be remembered. If you aren't a liberal, you'd remember the opinions of your opponents (in your case liberals) and over time you enlarge the quantity in your mind.

Yes I think thats a good point. I was thinking how CFC can seem quite conservative to me sometimes, then I read comments saying how Liberal it is!

 

[Hitro]

There are people with all sorts of political viewpoints in this forum, which is one of the reasons why I am still here ("other places" don't offer the same diversity).

The Creationists for example are surprisingly many here (though a minority) but even one of them would be outrageous in my real life surroundings.

There are relatively many Liberals in the European sense (in the Libertarian American sense) here, but that is hardly surprising given that it is to many teenagers in this century what Communism was in the post-war 20th.

 

[h4ppy]

I don't think its the points zulu makes that make some people dislike him (even if they are incorrect) but instead how he makes them.

 

[Stapel]

Are you talking economic liberties or social liberties??

Please elaborate, because that is quite a claim to make.

I mean, would you say I wanted to take people's liberties away because I believe in using taxes to fund the wealfare state? I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to make money, i'm just saying it should be taxed so that those people and others less fortunate can have free healthcare.....

(I don't mean to respond for Zulu or anything, it's just that I often agree with many of the points he makes!)

Economic liberties indeed!

I'm not against tax!
And even think the demand for healthcare can't be privatised!
But the supply side?????
The left-wing idea of state-run hospitals annoys me endlessly! On what basis do left-wingers think they have the right to tax me, and then use this money to support inneffective healthcare suppliers??

On what basis do leftwingers think they have the right to tax my car-fuel, and then use it to support ineffective empty trains? Or even worse, to construct 8 billion euro useless connections betwen A'dam and Paris?

On what basis do leftwingers think they have the right to tax me for collective insurences, and then use it for people not falling under such insurence?

That's the kind of left-wing nonsense that annoys me. Not tax in itself, but they way it is turned into craphola!

It is my strong believe that a government had no right to take money away from civilians, to use it to make decisions for them. Not even good decisions, but most certainly not poor decisions.
A government using my money for things I can handle myself is pure idiocy!

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

It seems like nearly every forum I go on, most of the users are liberal, usually outnumbering the conservative views 2:1. Has anyone else experienced this

That's cause more conservatives are still trying to figure out what all the buttons do.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Economic liberties indeed!

I'm not against tax!
And even think the demand for healthcare can't be privatised!
But the supply side?????
The left-wing idea of state-run hospitals annoys me endlessly! On what basis do left-wingers think they have the right to tax me, and then use this money to support inneffective healthcare suppliers??

On what basis do leftwingers think they have the right to tax my car-fuel, and then use it to support ineffective empty trains? Or even worse, to construct 8 billion euro useless connections betwen A'dam and Paris?

On what basis do leftwingers think they have the right to tax me for collective insurences, and then use it for people not falling under such insurence?

That's the kind of left-wing nonsense that annoys me. Not tax in itself, but they way it is turned into craphola!

It is my strong believe that a government had no right to take money away from civilians, to use it to make decisions for them. Not even good decisions, but most certainly not poor decisions.
A government using my money for things I can handle myself is pure idiocy!

Thanks for clarifying
I won't debate your points now, for that would be off the subject of the thread.

 

[zulu9812]

No, you're just radically, radically liberal. Since no one has ever been more to the left than you are, from where you're standing everyone is on your right.

That's not actually true, you know. I've actually moved closer and closer to the centre ever since I started university. According to that Political Compass site, my left-wing/right-wing score has moved from -7.25 (very left-wing) to 3.25 now. It's all rather worrying really. You're supposed to get more left-wing when you go to uni!

Although in terms of libertarianism vs. authoritarianism, I'm very much libertarian.

 

[Rik Meleet]

As one of the left-wingers Stapel usually disagrees with...

The left-wing idea of state-run hospitals annoys me endlessly! On what basis do left-wingers think they have the right to tax me, and then use this money to support inneffective healthcare suppliers??

Would you be against it if the "healthcare suppliers" were effective ?

On what basis do leftwingers think they have the right to tax my car-fuel, and then use it to support ineffective empty trains? Or even worse, to construct 8 billion euro useless connections betwen A'dam and Paris?

Would you be against it if the "public transport systems" were effective ?

On what basis do leftwingers think they have the right to tax me for collective insurences, and then use it for people not falling under such insurence?

Which insurance are you talking about and exactly which "people not falling under such insurence" are you referring to ?

That's the kind of left-wing nonsense that annoys me. Not tax in itself, but they way it is turned into craphola!

It is my strong believe that a government had no right to take money away from civilians, to use it to make decisions for them. Not even good decisions, but most certainly not poor decisions.
A government using my money for things I can handle myself is pure idiocy!

I know enough of you to not call you selfish, but this opinion of you is. And I disagree with your PoV that a government's task isn't "using my money for things I can handle myself". If you have it your way, many things will get very very inefficient. And the economy will collapse.
Just imagine who to sell card to if there are not sufficient roads, nor sufficient people with sufficient funds to buy cars. Not sufficient work for people to use a car to travel to and not sufficient mobility for shops to have people spend their money in.
Just imagine wannabe doctors having to buy (expensive) privatised medical education, fund their own private doctor-businesses, advertise for customers (patients) who need to pay a lot just for the wannabe doctor to repay his educational debts. And the quality of medical studies suffers from the high costs, thus the quality of the doctor even you go to once in a while. In your plan you pay a lot more for a bad product.

I can give examples for many (not all) of the reasons there can be given why your hated "left wingers" are correct and the far better choice overall.

Edit: ok this was a bit far off topic .... Sorry 'bout that.

 

[Hotpoint]

The left-wing idea of state-run hospitals annoys me endlessly! On what basis do left-wingers think they have the right to tax me, and then use this money to support inneffective healthcare suppliers??

The figures I've seen tend to show that a properly run Government Based healthcare system not only covers a larger percentage of the population but does so for a lower percentage of GDP.

Check the % of US GDP that is spent on Healthcare compared with Western Europe and then consider the tens of millions of Americans who still don't have Medical insurance.

I've worked in the Healthcare business for a while, both for a Private Company and now directly for the NHS here in the UK. The public sector actually does many of the same jobs cheaper and better which seems to be mainly due to the fact that people just give more of a ****.

It's those overpriced inefficient private healthcare systems administered by people who put profit ahead of patients that will screw you

 

[Zardnaar]

That's not actually true, you know. I've actually moved closer and closer to the centre ever since I started university. According to that Political Compass site, my left-wing/right-wing score has moved from -7.25 (very left-wing) to 3.25 now. It's all rather worrying really. You're supposed to get more left-wing when you go to uni!

Although in terms of libertarianism vs. authoritarianism, I'm very much libertarian.

I think that you'll find when you get older you tend to drift further to the right. Basically once you get a job you wonder where all you tax money goes and maybe those selfish right wing people may have a point after all.

 

[ComradeDavo]

I think that you'll find when you get older you tend to drift further to the right. Basically once you get a job you wonder where all you tax money goes and maybe those selfish right wing people may have a point after all.

People always say this, then when I go to hand anti-war flyers to some old people they shake my hand and say 'i'm with you!'.

That might apply in America, but in Britain socialists tend to stay socialist.

 

[Mega Tsunami]

That might apply in America, but in Britain socialists tend to stay socialist.

I have to say I don’t agree with you, I believe a lot of people (though not all by any means) change once they have a wife, 2.4 kids and a humungous mortgage to deal with.

I believe sites such as this are far more liberal than ‘real life’ – at least here in Britain – and that is because of the low average age here.

I think Winston Churchill once said (though not originally)

If a man is not a socialist by the time he is 20, he has no heart.
If he is not a conservative by the time he is 40, he has no brain.

 

[ComradeDavo]

I have to say I don’t agree with you, I believe a lot of people (though not all by any means) change once they have a wife, 2.4 kids and a humungous mortgage to deal with.

I believe sites such as this are far more liberal than ‘real life’ – at least here in Britain – and that is because of the low average age here.

I think Winston Churchill once said (though not originally)

If a man is not a socialist by the time he is 20, he has no heart.
If he is not a conservative by the time he is 40, he has no brain.

Sure, people might change from being a commie into a Labour supporter, but if what you say is true, then we would have Tory government, which we don't.

A third of people (who vote) vote for the Tories, the others for progressive parties. Alot of those who don't vote tend to be young and dissilunshioned, people who are Liberal but either feel they can't make a difference or don't see the point.

 

[Mega Tsunami]

You are mixing up conservatives and Conservatives.
A lot of conservative people voted for New Labour and would never vote, for example, for a true socialist party.

 

[nonconformist]

From a man who flip-flopped form the Tories to the Liberals, aand back again, it should be taken with a cellar of salt.