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Is the Steam DRM just a one-time verification check? Or is it much more?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by mossmonster, May 12, 2010.

  1. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    Yeah, and until they removed the disc check in the final BTS patch it was worse.
     
  2. }{ELL/\/()

    }{ELL/\/() Warlord

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    no I was living where there were no stores to buy the game within 30 miles, electronic distribution made sense

    Anyway you have a link or something because I havent heard anything about Steam sending my personal data anywhere or having any implementation of facebook (blizzard is doing this crap now in the starcraft 2 beta and its ********).
     
  3. Commander Bello

    Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations

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    You see, I am glad that at least you are admitting this. And I completely agree with you - the download of a complex game is expected to last for some hours (except you are sitting on a glass fibre cable, probably - and even then it depends on the speed of the servers).

    Why I am pointing this out is because people here are selling it as big advantage of Steam that you may "show your games to your friends without having the hassle to carry the discs with yourself".

    I just wanted to make clear that some to the semi-professional marketing blah blah here is not very accurate.
    In general, it is right. I can go whereever there may be an internet connection and download whatever is stored in my account.

    In reality this seems to be some kind of crazy idea, just since it will take literally hours.

    And once again, this is not Steam's fault. But it isn't any advantage over CD/DVD either.
     
  4. Grouchey

    Grouchey Chieftain

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    I disagree. In many ways Steam exacerbated the problem. There were six patches for Empire: Total War and sometimes the patches made performance worse for the players. But because the game was tied to Steam, the players weren't able to roll back to previous patches. Some players tried to stop the automatic updates but weren't able to. It was all pretty FUBAR for players.
     
  5. Xiao Xiong

    Xiao Xiong Prince

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    Plainly it would have to be a small game for that to be true, and I agree that particular marketing statement is not what I see as a big advantage of steam.

    I do like that I am able to install my games onto a new computer without any real work on my part. Sure, it takes time, but it is the computer's time instead of my time. However you're right for a big title like Civ unless you are visiting your friend for the weekend that isn't really going to work very well.

    For anyone who cares I have started a thread over on the Steam forums asking people there, who know more about what Steam really does, what is going on in offline mode.

    The thread on the steam forum is here: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1284129
     
  6. Xiao Xiong

    Xiao Xiong Prince

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    Sounds like the developer released a product that was not yet ready for prime time.
     
  7. Grouchey

    Grouchey Chieftain

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    No doubt. And Steam exacerbated the problem.
     
  8. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

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    In the same way that CDs would have exacerbated the problem if the developers completely screwed the pooch while deploying with that medium too.
     
  9. Crezth

    Crezth 話說天下大勢分久必合合久必分

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    Exactly. This anti-Steam paranoia is some of the silliest stuff I've ever seen. How does this thread have 22 pages? Wa wa wee wa.

    I understand why you people may be against Valve - oh, wait, no I don't. Valve, guys? Really? One of the fairest and most even-handed "evil" corporations out there?

    Are we forgetting what a great deal the Orange Box was? Or how much post-release support they gave Team Fortress 2? And maybe the out-of-business contingency they've created?

    If you really, really hate convenient software (and it is convenient, mmkay, fast, automatic updates and a very mature online connection system) so much, then don't buy Civilization V.

    If what you're worried about is getting your account terminated, you may dispel that worry immediately. Your account won't get terminated - unless, of course, you abuse the system by hacking, cheating, etc.

    If Firaxis is the company you don't trust, then why does it matter what medium they release it in? There are ways to screw you over with CD-released DRM. Like, say, this.

    Jeez loweez, you guys.
     
  10. Grouchey

    Grouchey Chieftain

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    @Chalk -- If you read what I've written you'll see why Steam's system of auto patching the game made the game uplayable for many owners. This could not have happened with a CD-only issued game as the game owner would have been able control updates and would have been able roll back to previous versions of the game. In essence, the Steam system made the game unplayable. I'm sorry if this does not comport with your views about Steam.

    @Crezeth -- pretty silly huh?
     
  11. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    And that's completly justified at this point.

    An unneeded software which i'm forced to use is convenient?
    And besides that, not buying is what we advertise here.
     
  12. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

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    No, the issue of "the publisher screwed up the deployment" is the problem here.

    If they burnt the game to CDs but when people put them in their machines it couldn't install, would you say CDs are bad?

    No matter what distribution method you use, someone can screw it up. The fact that someone screwed something up doesn't make the thing they failed to do bad. It makes them bad with technology that they're unfamiliar with.

    I'm sure they learnt from the experience and won't screw up in the same way again. Did the platform suddenly improve? No, it's exactly the same.

    Doing something wrong doesn't make the thing you were attempting "bad".
     
  13. evrett37

    evrett37 Prince

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    Oh look Chalks is attempting again to shoot down yet another case of steam dysfunction. Seriously dude 100s of examples of people having problems and you are still 100% denying all of them.

    Steam has problems. Enough to warrant SOME people to not want to have it forced on them. Admit it.

    Moderator Action: Flaming
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  14. Grouchey

    Grouchey Chieftain

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    That analogy of a broken CD doesn't work; we must be talking past each other. I am referring to the situation after Empire: Total War was released in which people had installed the game and were playing it, but a subsequent a patch made it worse for them or made the game unplayable. The Steam system of updates ruined the game for them because they could not go back to the earlier version.
     
  15. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    It could be argued that if a game ships exclusively with Steam it is easier to get away with a very shoddy release of the game such that a massive patch is needed on install. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's Steam's fault however.
    It's sort of like how for console games - particularly things like gameboy games where internet connection is very unlikely - that releasing a buggy game is a much bigger problem than releasing a buggy game on the PC. In some sense, the PC allowing easy updating of your game is partly responsible for developers being able to release buggy games.
    Still, all said, I think this is yet another topic that people just want to argue over, and that includes both sides again.
     
  16. Commander Bello

    Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations

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    Poor analogy.
    CDs are the media to transport the game. So, the equivalent would have been internet and vice versa.

    In the case of patches having side effects/problems it is an inherent problem of the Steam procedure that you don't have a chance to go back to a previous state, once you have downloaded and installed it.
     
  17. frekk

    frekk Scourge of St. Lawrence

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    They won't be spending their time unlocking hundreds of games when they go into bankruptcy. That's nonsense. I don't think it would even be legal, to turn all their resources towards projects that don't actually make any money - creditors would be losing money. Corporate bankruptcy is a bit different than personal bankruptcy.

    If hackers can do it, then what on Earth is the bloody point?
     
  18. frekk

    frekk Scourge of St. Lawrence

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    I'm not going to, unless they give me the product I'm telling them I want. I think people who don't want the product the way it is now are just here to voice themselves as consumers and let the companies know that lots of us, demand a different product. That's how capitalism works. It's not "oh, ok, yes master! I will take these drippings and be happy and defend it." It is ... "The consumer is always right".

    We could all shut up, and not let companies know what we want. Not let them know how many of us want something different. But how would we get products we want, then?
     
  19. Alki

    Alki Prince

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    You can turn auto patching off. It's not rocket science ffs!
     
  20. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

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    To disable activation they would simply need to release a patch for the steam client, not each of the games. They have said they already have this ability written just in case.

    And as I said, 2k would also be able to unlock the game even if Steam didn't.

    Think about all the things that would have to happen to produce the situation in which you would not be able to play the game due to the activation servers going offline. A massively successful company going bust, AND going bust in such a way that they do not unlock the client AND 2kgames also going bust within the same day so they don't unlock the game either.

    It is far more likely that you'll be unable to play because you were hit by a car.

    DRM does not have to stop piracy, it simply needs to raise the bar so that it is harder to pirate it in order to move more people from the "might pirate it" into the "will buy it" group. They don't really care if you can pirate it 6 months after they released it - they'll already have made most of their money. It's far more important that you can't download the game for free on the same day it is released.

    Pirated copies of the game also disable all the functionality that requires the Steam servers, further encouraging people to buy legit copies. Obviously this would not be an issue should the Steam servers cease to exist.
     

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