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Is the Steam DRM just a one-time verification check? Or is it much more?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by mossmonster, May 12, 2010.

  1. isndl

    isndl Chieftain

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    Valve has a long history of breaking things every time they add new features, whether it's for Steam itself or for one of their games. Given that you don't really have the option of refusing a platform update if you're online, you'll have to get used to it.
     
  2. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

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    A sweeping and unsupported statement.

    I have personally used Steam for 4 years and I have never experienced an update that has prevented me from doing anything.
     
  3. isndl

    isndl Chieftain

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    Showstopper bugs are rare and tend to be tied to more atypical configurations, but there are plenty of issues that slip through and affect gameplay. Any DLC release for L4D1/2 or TF2 is practically guaranteed to have problems; you'll have to excuse me if I don't have an exhaustive list on hand, but I was there to watch when several of those updates landed, and none of them were even near flawless.

    The Steam client isn't updated with new features as frequently so it's not quite as susceptible to new bugs being introduced, but they do happen. Ever since the 2010 UI update, I've found that Steam windows have a tendency to remain visible when I select a different window - I end up having to return focus to the Steam window before it will disappear. Doesn't prevent me from doing anything, but it can be very annoying.
     
  4. Shurdus

    Shurdus Am I Napoleon?

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    Every game that has patches also has bugs. Patches and added content may fix things but also it may not fix things for others. Such is the way it works... It is hardly a steam issue but more a human issue in the sense that we all make mistakes. If those mistakes would have been made without steam as well, then it is not really fair to blame steam.
     
  5. isndl

    isndl Chieftain

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    I understand that bugs will occur, but given the scale of the bugs that slipped through they should have been recognized before the content was released.

    The Crash Course DLC for L4D1 introduced a bug that caused a massive number of items to spawn when you previously would have relatively few. There was at least one TF2 update that would crash servers after only a couple hours of play. If I went through the change logs I could point out more that I can't think of off the top of my head, but that would take more time and effort than I currently have to spare.

    I don't really blame Valve for putting out bad updates, but their track record is not the prettiest. Their policy of requiring the latest update to play online does not help matters either. I'm not surprised when a large bug is revealed anymore, because a part of me was already expecting it.
     
  6. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    I never experienced a bug with a CD check.

    Out of curiosity, have you ever had a poor or unreliable internet connection in that time?

    The local telecom infrastructure owner finally fixed my internet connection yesterday [party] (after about 2 months of complaints). Annoying it took so long but reason to celebrate now nonetheless! :)

    Hopefully, update problems with Steam now will become a much rarer rarity.
     
  7. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

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    My internet connection is frequently atrocious due to being wireless. Can get very choppy at times.

    This is probably a significantly different problem to having a bad ISP, but I wouldn't want to guess to what extent that would make our experiences different.
     
  8. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    Actually it's rarely the ISP at fault but they typically get all the (misplaced) blame. In my case, it was the company that owned and maintained the infrastructure (telephone lines) at fault so the ISP was kinda like the middle man. It's especially frustrating because it means you don't have direct contact with the people who are the ones actually fixing the problem. That and and fact the first technician was too incompetent to even find the line problem.

    The number of hoops I had to jump through to get the problem fixed leads me to believe a huge number of people with similar problems would not know enough about the telephone line technology to actually keep them honest. Originally they told us the line was fine and the problem was with internal wiring or some such, along with the standard bs like asking you try a different router or updating its firmware. IMO it's a disgrace I had to fight as hard as I did. Anyway, I'm going way off topic and probably no one cares about my sad :( story with a happy ending. :)
     
  9. Beardy Dan

    Beardy Dan Warlord

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    I have, it was with Diablo 2 on release day iirc. The CD key on the back of the manual was incorrect, as I bought it from Amazon it took around a week to get it sorted out.
     
  10. snowlyon

    snowlyon Chieftain

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    actually...from what I have seen the only thing really being stated by a good many of us is the lack of CHOICE. it is a given that it is a part of the game, we all know this. even still, we are allowed to speak our minds. when some have done this, they are immediately set upon by the "pro-steam" crowd and then things tend to get ugly. if people are putting out false claims (on either party), well, I personally cannot speak for them, but I will call them to task if I see it.

    but try understand our point of view....it would go a long way in easing the tensions that are out there. currently it is "the steam way or the highway" mentality that gets me and the absolute ZERO understanding... if the pro-steam crowd dont like what they are seeing, perhaps it would be just a simple as not to respond at all? given that steam IS being used why enter into a debate that really is nothing more than that...Steam won...why poke the "fire" with a stick?~
     
  11. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    What are those false rumors though? I haven't seen one, and I have actively searched for them.
     
  12. RockingKraut

    RockingKraut Chieftain

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    Don't bulk me in with that idiot!
     
  13. RockingKraut

    RockingKraut Chieftain

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    Because poking is fun...and it sounds dirty :p
     
  14. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    Yes, basically Valve (like Microsoft with recent versions of windows) claims the right to change the contract as they wish in the future. We're not buying a game, we're paying to "lease" the software for as long as the company sees fit to maintain the contract. Once it expires for some reason (including the dreaded "EOL" for a software package so old it became unprofitable) there's every motive to believe that the software will be rendered unusable. Even if that's unlikely to happen for many years with civ games (Civ II is still sold now) that business logic is unacceptable for me. I'm moving from window to Linux because of it (just using win XP for games and some other activity until support ends). I've used steam for Half-life II, bought the orange box, tried it, dropped it (offline mode sucked, especially if I was selectively blocking connections) and just replaced its version of HL2 with the cracked version. But those are the last Valve software titles I'll ever play. And I absolutely will not buy Civilization V under those conditions - the series ends with Civ4 for me.

    I'll go back to playing Paradox's Europa Universalis series. At least they are smart enough to not screw with their paying customers.
     
  15. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    Well thats not true, the other game I play mainly (Football Manager) can be installed a number of times on different computers simultaneously (3 or 6 I forget which). Frankly all the limitations do is stop you from enjoying the game after you've given up all rights to this enjoyment by selling or otherwise trading your game to another person.

    I have too on last years version of FM (see above) I had problems with the way the code was printed on the manual. The problem was so bad that the developer had to put a programme up on their site which allowed you to put in what you thought the code was and the programme would correct errors (this was with the Uniloc system they had running on DVD versions of the game).

    I have been using Steam for 2 years, and while I wish there was no need for DRM, I find it fairly good and unintrusive (if a tad hoggy on the RAM).
     
  16. Donkeyman

    Donkeyman Chieftain

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    Have you ever bought a video game before, or a movie, or a CD? You buy a license to play/watch/listen to your media, you don't buy the actual media itself- otherwise millions of different people would own the same game/movie/album, and be able to try and claim it as their own IP. You "own" a game you buy on Steam to the same degree you "own" a game you bought a physical copy of- you have the files for the game, you can play it, you aren't allowed to make copies of it for distribution to others.
     
  17. Greybriar

    Greybriar Prince

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    US court says software is owned, not licensed.
     
  18. Donkeyman

    Donkeyman Chieftain

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    Well, that court ruling is two years old, and EULA's for media have not changed at all since then, so I doubt anything is going to come of it. Steam games still give you the exact same license to play the game that a physical copy does, and acting like Valve is going to strip you of your license to play the game when no other company ever does this is fairly outlandish.
     
  19. arstal

    arstal Say No 2 Net Validations

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    One big difference. Paradox can't just decide that you can't play what you bought one day. Valve could.

    The worst Paradox could do is make you unable to patch.

    I know it's unlikely as hell, but the fact it's possible is enough.
     
  20. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    I couldn't care less about EULAs. And I'm not saying that I fear Valve would deliberately strip me of my "license to play". I said that I refuse to pay for a "license to play", and that's final. I refuse to endorse and in any way fund that business model. Either sell me the media and the right to install and use it when and where I wish, subject only to the no-copy (or single installation) regular copyright norm, or I'm not buying anything. Software ales are governed by copyright law - it's a sale, not a lease - but steam brings attached too many limitations for my taste - I do fear that the support for the game will be dropped and the game left unplayable, and I won't be forced to have an internet connection to steam's servers (I know that their offline mode sucks). So I'm voting with my wallet. And that's all I have to say about the subject.

    edit: Btw, I just notices that only some "Deluxe" version of civ5 will be tied to the steam crapware, apparently. If so I may not boycott the game after all - Firaxis is offering a choice, at least.
     

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