Is there any reason not to go down patronage in every game?

[Meanness]

Yes, never 'go down patronage'. Get the first one to slow the decay, maybe the 25% gold, but that's it. Piety gives you more happiness, which means more pop working trading posts and researching. Order gives you production, happiness, and gold bonuses. Autocracy gives you the best gold bonus in the game. The paltry bonuses of the patronage tree pale in comparison.

 

[Mark the Bold]

Yes, never 'go down patronage'. Get the first one to slow the decay, maybe the 25% gold, but that's it. Piety gives you more happiness, which means more pop working trading posts and researching. Order gives you production, happiness, and gold bonuses. Autocracy gives you the best gold bonus in the game. The paltry bonuses of the patronage tree pale in comparison.

I couldnt agree more. I always tried to get all the Patronage feats due to comments on this forum. Then one game I had major unhappiness issues (started on a large island with just 3 luxuries ) so I went with Piety. From then on I was rolling in cash, happiness (just 3 social policies on Piety gives you the MOTHER of all policies: the one that reduces unhappiness by 20% in all non-occupied cities.) On this large map game, that translated to over 30+ smiley faces. So on large maps, from now on I say nuts to Patronage. Piety rules.

 

[stii]

At three and four points deep in the tree. The first two points are only good for making CS alliances cheaper to maintain

Is the science bonus alone worth giving up Order/Socialism/Planned Economy in an ICS game where you'll have so many cities that you'll have to make every policy count? Is it worth giving up Rationalism/Secularism/Free Thought in a large, trading post filled empire with many specialists?

Patronage is good, sure...but there are reasons not to spend policy points on it in every game.

I'm not saying it is the only option but getting a bunch of policies in a late game tree with ICS is pretty hard.

Assuming you aren't running you can often get the good stuff from Rationalism as well.

 

[aimlessgun]

Yes, never 'go down patronage'. Get the first one to slow the decay, maybe the 25% gold, but that's it. Piety gives you more happiness, which means more pop working trading posts and researching. Order gives you production, happiness, and gold bonuses. Autocracy gives you the best gold bonus in the game. The paltry bonuses of the patronage tree pale in comparison.

Patronage is for small empires. A small empire with lots of city state allies will get more happiness from Patronage than Piety by a long shot.

8 luxuries from CS x 2.5 happy per lux = +20 happy

Say 80 citizens in a well developed small empire x .2 happy per citizen from piety = +16 happy, +2 from initial = +18 happy.

Order obviously doesn't do much for small empires.

The Great People are not infrequent, and the science bonus for a small empire is a huge percentage of your tech output.

 

[durannarud]

As long as you have several city states nearby.

Yeah, if you make decent money, you don't really need patronage. It comes in handy, but there are other policies that could be even more beneficial, depending on the situation.

Ideally though, you should always take a few patronage ones... later perhaps, when you don't have anything more urgent to get.

 

[Mark the Bold]

Yeah, if you make decent money, you don't really need patronage. It comes in handy, but there are other policies that could be even more beneficial, depending on the situation.

Ideally though, you should always take a few patronage ones... later perhaps, when you don't have anything more urgent to get.

I agree. The best Patronage traits are the first one (no choice) and then philanthropy and scholasticism. The other Patronage traits are meh. I barely got any Great people in a long game wth tons of CS allies with GReece taking Educated Elite. Also the Cultural diplomacy is kina meh too; I have yet to play a game where I depended on a CS for all my resources. THe luxury bonus is nice, but not nearly as nice as spending the three sorta sucky Patronage traits (Aesthetics, Cultural Diplomacy, Educated Elite) on the Piety tree to get the uber awesome Organized Religion and Theocracy traits for the same three. You will get bored of Golden Ages near mid game with these game breaking Piety traits ESPECIALLY on large games. 30+ extra smiley faces on top of all your luxuries / buildings. Y'all can keep those 1 or 2 Great People and 20 extra horses I'll never use for the same Social policy count.

Also, the Commerce, Mercantilism and Trade Unions are very nifty on large games where transportation time really makes rushing purchases very beneficial.

 

[stii]

No one is forcing you to take the awful right side patronage policies.

Late game polices seem very un-eciting to me when the game is almost over by the time you get them. Even if the effect is twice as strong if you only get it for half as long it is worse.

 

[patsfan454]

if you are going ICS then you pretty much only have space for 6 policies which would be best put in Liberty/Order

 

[Martin Alvito]

Patronage is good, but it is outshined by current alternatives for most empires. Liberty is better for Happiness. So is Order, but it lands very late. Rationalism is the better Science boost in the long term, although Patronage often provides a larger immediate shot in the arm.

A player looking to win on Culture with a small empire would do well to use Patronage, because most of the powerful trees are only strong if you expand aggressively.

 

[tibbles]

Granted it was my one and only test, but I got 5+ free GP from city states my culture game, well worth 1 pt. I got a great engineer I saved for like 75 turns to rush the Cristo Redentor. And I recall I got 3-4 merchants I just dumped into the same CS because the map was too crowded by that point to walk them anywhere else. I'm near positive I was gifted a GS too. I don't recall what year I picked up the policy, but the game ended in the early 1800s, so this wasn't an abnormally long game either.

The odd thing was while I had 5-8 allies, all the free GP spawned from the same CS.

 

[stii]

Problem is it costs two policies as you have to take the awful influence 20 one as well. Given that culture takes forever to win it helps more there but being better because your vicotry condition is slow isn't the most glowing recommendation.

It also adds a huge random element you can't plan for you will get some but you don't get to pick which or even.

 

[tibbles]

Oh yeah, most games I wouldn't take it. I was just saying if you're taking the first ones in the tree anyways, it's a solid 1 pt to consider. Beats 1 GG from honor for example.

I wouldn't have called the 20 influence one comparatively awful either. It's like a free 160g donation to every city state to start you off. Not too poor for being on the same tier as getting more influence from a donation.

But the real extra benefit is post war with the AIs when they drag city states in against you. Unless I'm mistaken, as long as you have that SP, the turn after you make peace your influence will reset to 20/30 neutral, no need to wait to get out of hostile or donate extra. I assume this'd also apply to trespassing, but never tried.

 

[eviltypeguy]

It's entirely possible to skip the patronage tree; I've done it in several games lately. That's especially true if you play as Greece, which already has a favorable trait for dealing with city states.

 

[nodule]

It doesn't beat the 1 GG from Honor because that one comes so, so much earlier. That honor policy is awesome because it gives you a GG in time for your first rush.