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Is there any way to make jungles choppable earlier?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by killaer, Aug 17, 2009.

  1. killaer

    killaer Chieftain

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    Sorry if this has been answered before, but I am enjoying this mod and don't quite understand why jungles are not choppable. I'm in india and it's sort of a pain to expand and maintain my cities with jungle all around, and it makes it pretty hard to settle on other islands with jungle all over. My question is, is there any way to make it so that jungles are choppable earlier? Iron working, or something instead of biology?
     
  2. Ekolite

    Ekolite The Mighty Jungle

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    I guess that's just part of the challenge with India. Until Biology their land is quite weak saving the odd food resource. Once you get to biology you can replace jungle with cottages and farms and you will grow massively in power. It's quite realistic really.
     
  3. AlphaMale II

    AlphaMale II Chieftain

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    If you research Calendar, the jungles with the resources available at Calendar will be available when you make plantations. (Dye, spices, etc.). That's the quickest way for getting rid of some of the jungles in India before Biology.
     
  4. dragodon64

    dragodon64 Noble

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    Quite unrealistic actually, as India was a region of massive population, industry, and economic activity throughout the ages, and over the course of the early modern era it fell behind the rising western powers in the latter two categories. Jungles have not bothered Indians historically anymore than an odd bog, forest, hill, etc, has bothered any other group throughout history.
     
  5. ziamatt

    ziamatt Chieftain

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    If the jungle was such a big problem for India IRL it would have never been colonized. The fact that it expanded to cover the entire Indian subcontinent shows the jungle was of very little consequence to India. Perhaps India's UP could be changed to treating jungle tiles like forests?
     
  6. blizzrd

    blizzrd Micromanager

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    Do you mean to then allow movement like the Khmer, or do you mean like the Inca who get different resources out of mountain tiles (as compared to everyone else who get nothing).

    But if you mean just that the Indian jungles become forests, doesn't that defeat the purpose of calling them jungles in the first place?
     
  7. dragodon64

    dragodon64 Noble

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    Disregarding the technical ecological differences between jungles and forests, the only difference in game is that forests are more hospitable and useful, whereas jungles are not. Add to that the fact that several wooded areas are bountiful to the natives yet inhospitable to foreigners and the forest/jungle question becomes pretty complicated.

    I do think that several forests should be available in India, both through decrapification of the current eastern ghats and addition of forests in other areas.

    The suggested new UP would be quite clever I think, since large scale deforestation didn't start until the Raj (19th century), yet people were drawing from the rich treasures of land for centuries. Then again that could be said of virtually every nation containing tropical vegetation.
     
  8. Cethegus

    Cethegus King

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    I would rather have +1:food: and +1:hammers: from jungles as India's UP than the Power of Spirituality. It's essentially useless for them and would make more sense as Babylon's UP.
     
  9. dragodon64

    dragodon64 Noble

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    Wouldn't that be bit overpowered though? Grassland/Jungles would then be 3:food: 1:hammers:.
     
  10. kairob

    kairob Biohazard

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    I think they would be 2:food: 1:hammers: as jungles take -1:food: as standard. This would then make them the same as forests but with unhealthiness instead of healthiness.
     
  11. Cethegus

    Cethegus King

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    Kairob got it right, there would still be a penalty for having them around. I'm not as mad as the person making the Jungle MOD is.

    Also, re-adjusting the Indian UP would encourage the human player to settle Southeast Asia and Oceania more. Right now their UP feels similiarly out of place as Ethiopia does in RFC, put there to fill a quota or something.
     
  12. kairob

    kairob Biohazard

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    It was Cethegus' idea, not mine, I was just clarifying it for dragodon64.

    For what its worth the current Indian UP is one of my favorites and I do not want it replaced.
     
  13. Di di Mao

    Di di Mao Chieftain

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    Since there are jungles in south Florida, it seems a little unbelievable that if the Spanish have Miami, America can't even send troops to attack them, without of course sending troops in boats. This makes 1800s era expansion impossible without units with amphibious attack or massive amounts of expendable troops. Any ideas on how to get around this problem?
     
  14. Veshta

    Veshta Warlord

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    Mayans are severely hampered by the jungle taking up 50% of the available land they can expand to without stability penalties (according to stab. map). Maximum of 3 cities unless they wipe the Aztec .. but at least their UHV is possible now, the temple is very low priority for the AI it seems \0/

    All other civilizations would become immensely powerful from an earlier jungle clearing though, just imagine Portugal in SA if they could clear it upon arrival *shudder*.
     
  15. Baldyr

    Baldyr "Hit It"

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    Personally I've made Jungles passable for most units (but not all). Instead there is some damage from ending a unit's turn in Jungle terrain until the discovery of Medicine (for vaccines and the like). So its still not possible to cross the Amazonas pre Medicine - without losing the unit to accumulated damage.

    Swamps work about the same, but those are workable, improvable - and clear-able (to some extent).

    edit: I guess what's really needed is the possibility to found cities on Jungle tiles. How would one go about achieving this?
     
  16. AnotherPacifist

    AnotherPacifist Deity

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    And Mayans get a food/economy penalty too to boot; I can see the point for food-rich SE Asia, but Mayans? Rhye is just way too hard on some civs (like Mali).
     
  17. Veshta

    Veshta Warlord

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    The research bonus and pretty decent starting area makes Maya pretty potent. By the time the euros arrived in my last game I had them begging me for techs and was a few turns away from optics myself. So in their case any penalty (didn't know there was one :)) is justified, but I can imagine it is the same for others.
    Mali is just gimped, have never managed to pull their UHV off, much less survive long enough to even have a go at it. Pure micro-management from what I gather so no fun for me.

    On topic: Is it possible to attach jungle clearing to a wonder like the Temple of Kukulkan, like 'farms spread irrigation' is attached to Gardens of Andalus in RFC:E?
     
  18. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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    It should be possible. It's almost the same thing. Give the "power" of a tech to a wonder. It involves some C++.
     
  19. Magnificent One

    Magnificent One Stetsons are cool.

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    Is there any way to found cities on jungles? Not chop them,but just settle there.
     
  20. Cethegus

    Cethegus King

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    It's very easy. Go to CIVFeatureInfos.xml in RFC's Assets' Terrain folder, open the said file in a notepad program and search for JUNGLE. Then search for '<bNoCity>1</bNoCity>' (just 'nocity' is fine) and change the '1' value to '0'. Now you can clear subtropical India by founding cities and leaving them wide open for barbarian war elephants' intoxicated plunder raids. :king:
     

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