Is this a low number? (Immgration)

[Sidhe]

But it is not only the numbers that say this, living in any Western European nation for the last 20 years you will have noticed (expecially if you live in a big city) the huge change in the demographics. There are alot more immigrants, and they are almost all from muslim nations. Mohammed is the 2nd most popular name in Norway today, and apart from the state Church (which is largely composed of non-belivers following what they consider a name-calling ceremony which is baptism) Islam is the biggest religious entity. I should note though that if you add up all the Christian denominations they ae certainly more numerous than the muslims, still.

Maybe you should consider that he is just calling it as it is, instead of dismissing it because it doesn't sound good to you.

Your saying societies are becoming much more of a melting pot, he's saying we will have a theocratic Europe by 21st century, becoming neopolitan is not the same as becoming a muslim Europe, this is raccist propoganda, I've heard it before it makes no sense, countries don't become overwhelmed with a culture to the extent that that culture becomes dominant enough to change religions, at least not in modern times anyway. This rubbish is why they have raccist forums, if he wants to spout propoganda for his cause I suggest he takes silver's advice.

 

[Winner]

Both this quote and the quote underneath by aneeshm appear to be the product of poor education on the subjects at hand, in fact it sounds like you've been listening to too much raccist bile, if you would like however to remain a rational human being I suggest you provide links to this half baked nonsensical posit that we'll be Islamised by the 21st century, instead of spouting your opinion as if it was Gods righteous truth. Possibly the most ignorant post I've ever seen on CFC is aneeshm's which you quote as if it's a fundemental truth of Islam, yours is a close second.

I suggest you follow Silver's advice.

Well, It is rather simple, so I didn't think it is neccessary to explain it. European, I mean native European population is shrinking, and it is shrinking rapidly. There is plenty of sources all over the internet, so you can google it out.

As you can see, the population growth rate is very low, in many countries even negative, and I have to add that in many western European countries, the increase is caused mostly by the higher fertility rates among the (largely Muslim) immigrants.

These are the UN projections of the European (not EU) population:

(figures in thousands)
1995 727 885
2000 728 463
2005 728 389
2010 725 786
2015 721 111
2020 714 959
2025 707 235
2030 698 140
2035 688 041
2040 677 191
2045 665 637
2050 653 323
Source: http://esa.un.org/unpp/index.asp?panel=1

According to Eurostat, without immigratin, the EU population will shrink to about 400 million.

2005 457,014,547
2025 448,499,182
2050 398,760,540

It is clear, that if this trend will continue and Europe will keep admitting immigrants like this:

, the total number of immigrants and their descendants will constitute more than 20% (maybe even one third) of the total EU population.

Now, we know that Muslims are resisting assimilation, the recent events are proving it without much doubt. They retain their Islamic identity and their children seems to embrace it even more than their parents. If such big Muslim minority will reside in Europe and have European citizenship(s), it will be a really, really strong political factor. European politicians will have to adress their wishes in order to get their votes. Wishes like religious education in public schools, no Muhammad cartoons in newspaper, no "negative" stuff about Islam in TV etc.

This means they'll manage to impose Islamic rules on the European society, through purely democratic means. Together with widespread political correctness, nobody will dare to chalenge them, and if anybody tries, he will end up like Theo van Gogh, stabbed to death.

So, my dear friends, unless you come up with some brilliant argument, which will convince me that the Muslim minority will suddenly want to integrate and adopt European values and culture, or that Muslim immigration will suddenly stop or that European fertility will suddenly increase above the replacement level, you have no right to call me a racist and say that my views are irrational, not based on facts.

It is you who is hiding heads in the sand, ignoring the facts, believing in wishful thinking.

 

[Sidhe]

I don't care it's boring raccism and it'll never happen, in fact I don't even want to argue about it because it's beneath contempt.But just to address some rather lame assertions.

Your case rest on an exponential model of immigration not a logistical one, and therefore it's complete bunk.In other terms I mean your assuming falsely that there will never be a halt to this influx and it will keep increasing exponentially. This is nonsense.

the total number of immigrants and their descendants will constitute more than 20% (maybe even one third) of the total EU population.

And therefore I think we can see that Godzilla will be pope by 2036

Are you planning on stripping the entire world of muslims and inserting them into Europe by the way, maybe we can move into the empty muslim lands once there all over here.

 

[Winner]

I don't care it's boring raccism and it'll never happen, in fact I don't even want to argue about it because it's beneath contempt.But just to address some rather lame assertions.

At least you admit that you don't want to think about it. If ignorance is your choice, it is also your problem.

Your case rest on an exponential model of immigration not a logistical one, and therefore it's complete bunk.In other terms I mean your assuming falsely that there will never be a halt to this influx and it will keep increasing exponentially. This is nonsense.

Immigration will weaken, but before that happens, there will be a significant Muslim population. You can google it out if you want exact numbers, EU published a lot of papers about that.

And therefore I think we can see that Godzilla will be pope by 2036

Your pathetic attempt to ridicule my findings is laughable. If you can't refute my arguments, then keep quiet.

Are you planning on stripping the entire world of muslims and inserting them into Europe by the way, maybe we can move into the empty muslim lands once there all over here.

I am not planning anything like that, so please, stop being lame. The only thing I really am implying is that the massive Muslim immigration to Europe has to be stopped. I am not against immigration, I realize Europe needs it in order to maintain its influence and economic power. This immigration, however, has to be regulated. Europe needs skilled people who are willing to integrate into European society. We don't need people who came here, abuse our welfare states and form ghettos where they dream about converting Europe to their religion.

Immigrants from christian Africa, India, China, Vietnam and Eastern Europe are all much better choice than Muslims.

 

[Elta]

In that case why not latin america - it's way more christian than europe (please don't take that comment as taking sides on the euro migrant argument because it's something I know very very little about so I have no right to comment)
Every time I go to mexico I see a lot of comercials in mexico about moving to spain ... interesting

 

[Håkan Eriksson]

Christianity isn't not at all better than Islam.

Immigration of "skilled" people (aka brain-drain) is not at all something to prefer vs immigration of "less skilled" workers.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

There's plenty of room left

If you live in a red state, odds are the population density in your state is far far lower than the average for any other firstworld country. America can take a lot more immigrants, and she NEEDS more. The only worthwhile business to come out of this country in the last ten years, namely, the Internet, is basically powered by immigrants.

 

[Blazer6]

We can do without any more immigrants for years until the current ones either get deported or become citizens. Kicking out those who can't even assimilate and give up their old homeland is also a good start. That won't happen in any case.

 

[Elta]

. Kicking out those who can't even assimilate and give up their old homeland is also a good start. That won't happen in any case.

Give up there homeland ...like sending money home to poor relatives?
or not instanly knowing english Fresh of the boat?

 

[Winner]

In that case why not latin america - it's way more christian than europe (please don't take that comment as taking sides on the euro migrant argument because it's something I know very very little about so I have no right to comment)
Every time I go to mexico I see a lot of comercials in mexico about moving to spain ... interesting

What is so interesting? Spain and Portugal get more immigrants from Latin America than they get from Africa. They speak their language, they want to work, they have similar culture and they are willing to integrate. Ideal combination.

 

[Winner]

Christianity isn't not at all better than Islam.

Immigration of "skilled" people (aka brain-drain) is not at all something to prefer vs immigration of "less skilled" workers.

It isn't better, it is just closer to our culture. Like it or not, Europe is a Christian continent, even if the Europeans themselves aren't religious anymore. Our values, our perception of morality, our perception of right and wrong, our institutions, this all is heavily influenced by the Christian heritage. We can't deny that, it would be like saying "Europe has never been Christian".

Islam, on the other hand, is alien religion in Europe. In fact, European Christians have been at war with the civilization based on Islam from the 7th century. Crusades were maybe the first common European undertaking. Islamic threat has always been the strongest unifier of European nations. Only in the last century, when Europeans "won" by force and occupied the Islamic countries, they've stopped thinking about Islam in terms of threat.

Islam carries a distinct set of values with it, and these values are in conflict with the values based on Christianity. Therefore, from European point of view, it is better to have Christian immigrants, because there is a chance they'll have values similar to ours, which will make their integration far easier.

 

[Elta]

What is so interesting? Spain and Portugal get more immigrants from Latin America than they get from Africa. They speak their language, they want to work, they have similar culture and they are willing to integrate. Ideal combination.

I mean the whole free apartment,bus pass stuff *skeptical*
I am not diggen the subtle insults of the U.S. either ...learn a new language? Forget that mess (corect me if I am wrog but I think regathero is mess in english)
Don't want to "look" for work *they show images of the mexican day workers in the U.S.)

 

[Winner]

I mean the whole free apartment,bus pass stuff *skeptical*
I am not diggen the subtle insults of the U.S. either ...learn a new language? Forget that mess (corect me if I am wrog but I think regathero is mess in english)
Don't want to "look" for work *they show images of the mexican day workers in the U.S.)

Unfortunately, I am afraid I don't understand a word of what you're saying, sorry

 

[Elta]

Unfortunately, I am afraid I don't understand a word of what you're saying, sorry

Maybe my signature needs a disclaimer.....

 

[Homie]

Sidhe, Winner actually wrote some arguments and your response is (for lack of better wording) very unprofessional. You didn't counter any of his claims, you basically said: "well I don't want to think about it. Racist, racist, propaganda!". Its not "propaganda", its just what is happening, the numbers say it and the average European living in a city can see it. And I don't even see how racism plays into this.

 

[Homie]

Pilathe, we're not talking about the US here, that is a different case alltogther.

Elta, what was your last post about. I am utterly confused

 

[Elta]

Pilathe, we're not talking about the US here, that is a different case alltogther.

Elta, what was your last post about. I am utterly confused

about how there are commercials in mexico about moving to spain that while advertising it, takes several jabs at the U.S.

 

[Perfection]

According to CIA factbbook, the US population is 298,444,215 (July 2006 est.)

Really, I always thought it was 298,444,216

It just irks me that there is no reporting of how precise this figure is.

 

[Blazer6]

Give up there homeland ...like sending money home to poor relatives?
or not instanly knowing english Fresh of the boat?

I would go with, refusing to learn the language after living here for years and segregating themselves from American culture.

 

[Elta]

I would go with, refusing to learn the language after living here for years and segregating themselves from American culture.

Refusing? trust me there is no one refusing to learn english.
I asked one of my aunts who only speaks spanish why shenever learned english ...do you know what she said? well I am not smart enouf. Thats it trust me I know from learning portuguse and nahtul, taking a spanish class in school learning a new language is not easy and if you think it is you should try it some time.

"segregating themselves" those so called mexican neighborhoods were created by white people moving out of them at twice the speed that hispanics moved into them ....two mexican familys in your block? whoops 5 white familys just moved out to look for "a better race to raise kids" (read just white people)

"American culture" - thats the spanish tv and radio stations right? or is the night clubs that play decent music?

The fact of the matter is that 82% to 90% of hispanics born in america perfer english over spanish (while 80% of them speak spanish)
and in second generation hispanics only 5% of them speak spanish and 100% of them prefer english http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/27/AR2006042702505_3.html
(part of it is in the link if you don't belive me)

I don't know where you are all from but where I am from every one gets along
and no one gives a **** about interracial relationships

Being half White-Mexican it makes me sick when I here my one of my white
or mexican uncles say somethig racist about white or mexican and then going
"except you your XX race" this **** didn't make me anymore anything it made me hate racist, I am half white and half mexican and I am proud of everything I am.
all you racist and or xenophobes can go to hell.