Is this the end of liberalism?

[Hygro]

I already told you 3 times.

It's clear you're not going to answer the question.

I'm trying to, but you're going in a circle, so let me help you help me answer you.

The economy is made up of 3 things:
people (labor or "human capital")
stuff (physical capital, infrastructure, goods, resources)
money (the agreement with which we organize the people and the stuff)

In your example you have 500 people who can be labor. But 300 of them cannot because of a limitation. We know the limitation cannot be because there are 300 too many, that's just circular. Therefore the problem must be coming from "stuff" or "money".

If the problem is money it we aren't financing the extra 300 jobs. This is the definition of a recession and an artificial lack of demand. It means we could have 500 jobs but don't because we're choosing not to.

If the problem is stuff, we have a bigger problem on our hand but then you have to justify how we have a stuff problem IRL. HINT: you can recognize a stuff problem via inflation. The 70s inflation being caused by a shortage of oil being the most obvious example.


So in your model, what's preventing the job market from accommodating the extra 300 engineers?

Then we can move forward.

 

[civman110]

Here's a hint civman- it is a lack of capital. In a sense that's the only "real" barrier to economic growth barring lack other external resources such as land or building supplies.

An excess labour supply does not grow an economy, or increase wages. His claim that free socialized university correlates to higher wages is not true - It is demonstrably false.

All it will do is make university degrees just as useless as high school diplomas. Everyone will have them.

 

[civman110]

"I personally am TIRED of the First Amendment. The 1st Amendment Creates a ‘Hostile and Unsafe Learning Environment."

- Brenda Smith-Lezama, Mizzou Student VP


Link to video.

Yet another brain damaged college student.

 

[Akka]

Have you ever even heard of the initiation of force? Taxes and anti murder laws are not remotely comparable. Laws preventing murder are preventing people from initiating force against others, that is why they are inherently just. Taxes are a whole different category of laws, taxes are the government initiating force against you. We accept that some degree of that is necessary to have a stable society, almost everyone agrees that the government is necessary in some capacity. If you want to argue that college education should be one of those capacities, fine, make that argument. But don't sit there and tell me that the initiation of force (pay your taxes or we'll throw you in jail) isn't force. If you want to make your case you need to make it honestly.

You're the one making a lot of stuff up to claim that taxes are theft here, so I could throw it back right at you, because your argument is really not intellectually honest.

You arbitrarily separate between elements and arbitrarily declare "well, this one is just, this one is not" without a lot of consistency. So little consistency in fact that you even accept that taxes should exist for a stable society to begin with. So basically your argument is that theft is not acceptable, unless it is. Woah, that's a fun mental gymnastic here.

All this "initiation of force" reeks of randroidism.

 

[aelf]

As if I didn't have enough reason to detest these people.

Hey, college morons, here's a hint: there's no such thing as "free tuition". What you're marching for is a program to steal money from me and redistribute it. Piss off!

A quote to testify to me generation.

 

[useless]

A quote to testify to me generation.

Who cares about society? GIMME GIMME GIMME

In his effort to show how greedy students are, Wolf inadvertantly displayed his own immense greed and avarice

 

[aelf]

Yup, he's just as bad as the people he complains about. The difference is those people want free education, which, you know, isn't a bad thing from a societal perspective. He just wants more money.

 

[Sommerswerd]

The real boondoggle at the heart of all of this is that the already "free" 12 years of public education is virtually worthless, forcing you to go pay someone to give you another few years of educating before you are fit to recieve a middle class job.

I can't help but feel like part of what makes people think that their college education should be free, is the underlying principle that its unfair to make people go into lifelong debt just to be middle class. That burden should be reseved for the people who want to be fat cats. If I just want to make a decent living and raise an average family, I shouldn't have to pay "extra" for that. Paying "extra" should be for people who want "extra."

It's like you go to McDonalds and say "I'd like a regular size meal please", and they say "Regular size?!? Oh that's extra!" WTH?!? "What!? Why? Extra for what?!? I just want to be middle class! Why is that extra??" You should be able to go to public school, graduate, and be middle class, period.

 

[Akka]

I can't help but feel like part of what makes people think that their college education should be free, is the underlying principle that its unfair to make people go into lifelong debt just to be middle class.

It goes well beyond that (though even considering the idea that people could start their life already ladden with debt is surely a very sick one to begin with).
I'd say it stems from the ideal of a democracy, that it works for and by everyone, and that decent education is both a fundamental right (helping people to be free, because you can't really be free if you haven't actual access to knowledge) and also a societal necessity (the more educated and able the people, the better democracy works).
I'd even go on a limb and suppose that societies with better average education have higher turnout on elections.

In the end, knowledge is power, and the only one who would like to restrict education are the ones who'd want to be able to exploit the weakness of others.

 

[civman110]

Who cares about society? GIMME GIMME GIMME

In his effort to show how greedy students are, Wolf inadvertantly displayed his own immense greed and avarice

How so? Because he doesn't want to pay for some SJW hipster's basket weaving degree? That's insane!

I'd imagine Wolf works hard for the money he makes. Perhaps he wants to spend it on his children if he has any, or even himself. It's his money. He worked for it.

 

[Sommerswerd]

In the end, knowledge is power, and the only one who would like to restrict education are the ones who'd want to be able to exploit the weakness of others.

And the only way you can get enough "education" (credentials really... which isn't necessarily the same thing) to have some small measure of economic freedom is to go into enough massive debt that you will never have any economic freedom.

So you want to be middle class? So you're going to assemble cars huh? Oh, but you want fair wages, labor standards and such? Pfft, we just replace you with a machine, go be a Customer service Rep for half the money. What you cant afford a house? Just rent peon! You want more money? Pfft, we just replace you with a person in Bangladesh, go be a casheir for half money. What you can't afford a car? Take the bus peon, its better for the environment anwyway! You want more money? Pfft, we just replace you with a self-serve checkout, go work at McDonalds for half the money. BS you say? You're getting a CDL huh? Don't worry, we already have autopilot technology so truck drivers will be obsolete soon enough...

I went to McDonalds a few months back, and the person taking my order sounded Indian, and reminded me of the HP tech support guys. So I asked him if he was in the restaurant and he told me he was offsite... Outsourced drive-thru

 

[civman110]

Don't go to university and waste your time taking gender and women's studies classes and you'll be fine. Take sciences, maths, and business.

 

[Zkribbler]

"I personally am TIRED of the First Amendment. The 1st Amendment Creates a ‘Hostile and Unsafe Learning Environment."

- Brenda Smith-Lezama, Mizzou Student VP

That isn't what she said. Why do you put in quotes your edited version of her words, which by the way, completely changes her meaning?

 

[civman110]

That isn't what she said. Why do you put in quotes your edited version of her words, which by the way, completely changes her meaning?

That is what she said everyone can watch the clip.

 

[Akka]

And the only way you can get enough "education" (credentials really... which isn't necessarily the same thing) to have some small measure of economic freedom is to go into enough massive debt that you will never have any economic freedom.

Well, it's true in the anglosphere, but less rotten cultures manage to consider education as something that's not just some commodity good to be left to the market. Many European countries have more or less free education.
Though sadly, the rot is spreading.

 

[Funky]

Don't go to university and waste your time taking gender and women's studies classes and you'll be fine. Take sciences, maths, and business.

Here in Germany students are told not to care about the market, but to study what they want to. That may sound good in some fantasyland. But indoctrinating young students with the false view that the demand for jobs doesn't matter is simply irresponsible. In the University of Hamburg we have thriving departments for pearls of essential knowledge such as art history, Vietnamese, or folk lore (no kidding). The consequences are massive dropout rates, students studying forever because they are afraid to finish, and high levels of unemployment among post-graduates, who in the best case eventually find some second-class job which has nothing at all to do with their education.

Interestingly enough, here the ambitious and determined students who study business or law are the ones who are mocked by students of the humanities, who, it should be noted, spend much of their college time whining about the horrors of capitalism, Western imperialism and tuition fees instead of actually learning. Though glancing at the recent events at Yale and Missouri universities I guess I shouldn't complain...

 

[Zkribbler]

That is what she said everyone can watch the clip.

I suggest they begin listening beginning at 3:15.

Reality: "I personally am tired of hearing that First Amendment rights protect students when they are creating a hostile and unsafe learning environment for myself and other students here. I think it is important to create that distinction and to create a space where we can all learn from one another and start to create a place of healing rather than a place where we're experiencing lot of hate like we have in the past." ("Um's omitted.)

Civman's so-called quote: "I personally am TIRED of the First Amendment. The 1st Amendment Creates a ‘Hostile and Unsafe Learning Environment."

Not only have you failed to precisely present her quote [which putting it within quotations requires], but you failed to accurately reflect the gist of what she's saying. She never says or implies that she is tired of the First Amendment. She does not say the First Amendment is creating a hostile and unsafe learning environment. Rather, she is saying student are creating a hostile and unsafe learning environment (the implication being that these students' actions are not protected by the First Amendment].

 

[civman110]

I suggest they begin listening beginning at 3:15.

Reality: "I personally am tired of hearing that First Amendment rights protect students when they are creating a hostile and unsafe learning environment for myself and other students here. I think it is important to create that distinction and to create a space where we can all learn from one another and start to create a place of healing rather than a place where we're experiencing lot of hate like we have in the past."

Civman's so-called quote: "I personally am TIRED of the First Amendment. The 1st Amendment Creates a ‘Hostile and Unsafe Learning Environment."

The quote is not out of context whatsoever.

In fact, I think this student must be the result of a botched lobotomy. It's the only possible way someone could say something that is so utterly ridiculous.

She never says or implies that she is tired of the First Amendment. She does not say the First Amendment is creating a hostile and unsafe learning environment. Rather, she is saying student are creating a hostile and unsafe learning environment (the implication being that these students' actions are not protected by the First Amendment].

We both just posted her quote and it's blatantly obvious that she said nothing of the sort. However, I agree that that's what her implication was.

 

[Zkribbler]

... art history, Vietnamese, or folk lore (no kidding)...

Having taken art history and classes which contained folk lore, I can safely say that I benefited from them.

BTW: Students taking Vietnamese will be in an excellent position when manufacturing jobs migrate from China to Vietnam.

You assume that the sole purpose of a university education is to gain the knowledge necessary so that you can slave away from The Man.

A liberal education is based upon the premise that there is more to life than employment.

 

[Zkribbler]

The quote is not out of context whatsoever.

In fact, I think this student must be the result of a botched lobotomy. It's the only possible way someone could say something that is so utterly ridiculous.

In fairness to civman, he made his post while I was editing my post to add the final paragraph.