Is this the end of liberalism?

[madviking]

Sure. They have a place for warning war veterans, or rape victims, or other people that might justifiably be able to lay claim to having legitimate PTSD about content that might not be appropriate for them. They do not have a place as a label that people demand be placed everywhere because somebody might be (GASP, SHOCK!) offended, which is how it's getting used now.

why are you belittling people who get offended?

 

[Hygro]

Conservatives don't believe any of this stuff. They have always said it's crazy and would lead to these kinds of idiotic situations.

You actually have Yale students in their late teens, early 20's that are unable to dress themselves for Halloween, or go out in public without a "safe space" free of alternate opinions. I thought people went to universities for an education, not to argue over trivial things.

These are kids going to Yale so they are the establishment. Part of the university education is learning modern social norms in an intense way.

But, and I hope I don't disappoint you, but what is conservative changes to be whatever is the standard social norms during the childhood of the person growing up to be conservative.

Notice the acceptance of gay people that is widespread among conservatives that wasn't the case 10 or especially 20 years ago.

Do you think people should be able to wear blackface, even if they aren't black?

He probably doesn't, but neither did the professor.

Story time:
Plains-Indian Native American ceremonial war garb looks awesome. Looking awesome and dressed up while partially naked looks great at the disco, and especially at parties in the desert. So from that purview, when I started going to parties in the desert where white folks were wearing such garb, it looked really cool. I even thought "I might want to do some of that".

Then facebook blew up with articles about how Native American groups, far from being flattered that we think their ceremonial garb is dope, and far from not caring that kids are wearing costumes, many found it important to remind us: "hey, those outfits have modern day meaning to us, and our/your government's genocide against us is still ongoing. Please afford us some dignity."

Almost overnight 60% of people stopped wearing such outfits. Of the ones who still do, some are clueless, and some disagree with the idea that a costume worn among free desert partiers should be taboo.

It definitely took no excited effort on my part to completely change my own mind.


So to bring it back, most people are going to get on board with a reasonable request issued with enough force that people are excited to share that request, and no more. A professor telling other faculty that they youth should be in charge of policing their own social norms is not unreasonable. It is also not unreasonable to politely remind students not to be jerks, but that it probably is more healthy if the students come to not expect their social norms to be institutionally driven.

 

[civman110]

These are kids going to Yale so they are the establishment. Part of the university education is learning modern social norms in an intense way.

But, and I hope I don't disappoint you, but what is conservative changes to be whatever is the standard social norms during the childhood of the person growing up to be conservative.

Notice the acceptance of gay people that is widespread among conservatives that wasn't the case 10 or especially 20 years ago.

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. These are leftist policies gone wild at Yale.

Conservative stand for specific principles. What you have said is your own wishful thinking. You clearly don't know what a Conservative is.

 

[warpus]

This isn't going to end well for liberals.

Your obsession with "the liberals" is amusing.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

why are you belittling people who get offended?

I'm guessing from previous posts of yours that your being facetious here, but I'll answer just in case: my problem isn't with people being offended, it's with those people then throwing a hissy fit and demanding that nobody ever offend them again. It's like something went wrong with these people's development and they failed to grow up emotionally. People in college are supposed to be adults. Young adults, yes, but still adults. Time to act like it.

 

[Hygro]

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. These are leftist policies gone wild at Yale.

So you think what is conservative never changes? Please pick your date and location for what societal norms have forever and always been conservative.

 

[madviking]

I'm guessing from previous posts of yours that your being facetious here, but I'll answer just in case: my problem isn't with people being offended, it's with those people then throwing a hissy fit and demanding that nobody ever offend them again. It's like something went wrong with these people's development and they failed to grow up emotionally. People in college are supposed to be adults. Young adults, yes, but still adults. Time to act like it.

what's wrong with limiting the amount of offense in the world?

 

[civman110]

So you think what is conservative never changes? Please pick your date and location for what societal norms have forever and always been conservative.

You're trying to say that Conservatives are whatever the social norm is during childhood, but that couldn't be more false.

Conservatism is an ideology, as is liberalism, however this thread isn't about Conservatives - so back on topic.

what's wrong with limiting the amount of offense in the world?

Because "offence" is completely arbitrary and grown men and women should be able to handle being offended. Everyone isn't going to agree with you. That's a fact of life.

 

[warpus]

what's wrong with limiting the amount of offense in the world?

An attempt to limit offense in the world would offend me. So you can't do that.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

Because "offence" is completely arbitrary and grown men and women should be able to handle being offended. Everyone isn't going to agree with you. That's a fact of life.

Precisely. I'm offended that people think Taylor Swift albums are good. That doesn't mean we should ban Taylor Swift from ever making an album again, not does it give me the right to demand that she not be played in public or demand that warnings be put up in any place where her music might be played.

 

[civman110]

Precisely. I'm offended that people think Taylor Swift albums are good. That doesn't mean we should ban Taylor Swift from ever making an album again, not does it give me the right to demand that she not be played in public or demand that warnings be put up in any place where her music might be played.

I agree. That's what freedom is.

What the left wants to do is impose on everyone their vision for the world, but in order to do that you have to deny people their freedom.

 

[El_Machinae]

Do you think people should be able to wear blackface, even if they aren't black?

I actually quite disagree with the current blackface ban. Keep in mind, I recognize its racist roots.

I first became of the blackfan ban when I saw some women dress up as OITNB characters. Now, handsdown, Crazyeyes is one of the most engaging, amusing, depressing, and horrifying characters I've seen in a long while. Anyone wanting to pay an homage to the character is probably intending nothing other than just that, an homage.

The real horror is that we find it credible that a low-IQ black with emotional problems would be serially incarcerated in the US prison system. Why'd they get a black person to play Crazyeyes? Because it would be a black person in that role.

Now, I get that people would be offended if one tried to dress as Crazyeyes for Halloween. It just makes me sad that they would.

 

[Rashiminos]

And a Left's view of "Is this the end of liberalism?".
Looks like nobody's happy.

I fail to see how criticizing a one party administration falls under the purview of "the Left," exactly...

 

[civman110]

I fail to see how criticizing a one party administration falls under the purview of "the Left," exactly...

So the left is not the left? And students are part of the administration - not individual citizens.

 

[Hygro]

This thread isn't about Conservatives. You're trying to say that Conservatives are whatever the social norm is during childhood, but that couldn't be more false.

Conservatism is an ideology, as is liberalism.

Funny how that ideology changes with the times. Funny how it matches those times....

Precisely. I'm offended that people think Taylor Swift albums are good. That doesn't mean we should ban Taylor Swift from ever making an album again, not does it give me the right to demand that she not be played in public or demand that warnings be put up in any place where her music might be played.

I spy with my little eye a glaring problem with this analogy.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

I spy with my little eye a glaring problem with this analogy.

So share your thoughts with the whole class.

 

[Hygro]

what's wrong with limiting the amount of offense in the world?

Motte and Bailey. Bruh.

 

[Rashiminos]

Do you think people should be able to wear blackface, even if they aren't black?

I'd be more concerned with what an absolute prohibition on pretending to be black or identifying as black says about blackness. Is the target poor and malicious acting, or verboten complexions?

Spoiler :

Eventually, it would be nice to get rid of this stigma. Currently the best way to become black is to first die and then be reincarnated as a black person.

 

[Hygro]

So share your thoughts with the whole class.

There's a big difference between something you don't like and something you believe oppresses you.

 

[Rashiminos]

So the left is not the left? And students are part of the administration - not individual citizens.

The post by abradley was pertaining to the Obama administration. Like the immediately preceding president, the association with the left-right scale is incidental at best.