Isabella is really really annoying

[Wodan]

I guess the biggest problem is when people don't think outside the box. I used to think that giving a tech to an AI was a total no-no. Even converting to another Civ's religion to keep the peace I thought was a non-option. Now I see that in certain situations short term pain means long term gain. As Einstein said, "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

I guess that is one of the reasons I love Civ 4. The interaction with the AI seems 1000% better. People are compaining about Isabella and not wanting to play with her because she disrupts their certain style of playing. I think that's fantastic. Every AI leader seems to have their little quirks and style of play. Makes the game infinitely more fun I think.

Right on! Cannot agree more.

I've found Isabella quite easy to deal with... as long as you are the same religion. Same is probably true of all the spiritual leaders.

Converting to hers is an option, maybe suboptimal for some play styles, but it might be preferable to having an upset AI for neighbor. Sometimes I think people get "stuck" in their strategy and refuse to adjust on the fly.

Seriously... if you're doing a cultural victory, you're already spreading her religion to all your cities anyway (to get temples for cathedrals in your 3 cities). So who cares if you switch? If you're not doing a cultural, then you're probably spreading her religion so that you can switch to Free Religion later.

Another option is converting her to your religion. Game before last, I started Buddhism and as soon as I saw Isabella was my neighbor, I spread Buddhism to her STAT. As soon as one of her cities were Buddhist she converted. She even started Confucianism I think, later on, but all her cities were Buddhist so she stayed Buddhist all game. Was great for our relations. ;-)

This game I'm experimenting as Rome on an island map. Using "suicide galleys" to ensure expansion room. I'm avoiding ALL religious techs. It's maybe 100 AD and I've just now gotten Taoism spread to one of my cities. I'm dithering over popping an monastery and spreading it, vs continuing to ignore it. A culture victory is probably out of the question, despite that I'm the first to Theatres. So, I'll probably stay the course and see how it does.

Wodan

 

[Bast]

Once I was Jewish Egyptian and she was right next door to me and Hindu. We both held our state religions pretty strongly and she refused to sign open borders and trade. Of course, war was inevitable and I had to wipe her out. It was my Holy War.

I'm so glad they've added religion.

 

[Frimlin]

I too have had game after game where she was annoying -- so I've taken to not playing with her for a while. I agree with at least one previous poster, that it is great that the Leaders provoke intense reactions. Once I've finished kicking Cyrus' ass a few times, I'll move onto her whining hiney.

 

[Tahuti]

The best way to deal with Isabella is to be herself, maybe... Strangely enough, I was playing as Russia (Peter the Great) and I was able to get along with her good. She wasnt that annoying I found myself. And if you find her annoying, play as her or do the Custom Game and leave her out!

 

[Olie]

For me, it's between Isabella and Tokugawa for Most Annoying Civ. They both seem to have the knack of being exactly where you'd least like them, and I think they both have a grudge against me (after all those times I beat them at Civ2).

As for an alternative Spanish leader, how about Ashley Giles?

 

[opticaljim]

I'm not a really advanced player. She just seems pouty to me. Every game I've played she just starts out annoyed.

And what's with the yawning?

Jeez, she reminds me of an ex-girlfriend.

 

[axisandallies]

Isabella is a fanatical, war mongering, religious zealot. She's GREAT!

She should run for President!

 

[DwWinnebagos]

I'd say I hate Montezuma a lot more.
If you have 1 city close to him, he's off the charts pissed about close borders.

Isablella's mediocre to me; if she founds a religion and ends up on a continent w/someone who does the same, she'll war with them and never be a threat.
(it's just irritating when it's you)
If she ends up converting her continent though . . . look out.
She's a monster then.

Total one trick pony; convert or die.

Montezuma and Napoleon are worse though, as they're just back-stabby. Isabella will help you out where those two leaders just want to see your underbelly for a second, to cut it out.
I've had my capitals sacked more than a few times by Monty.

 

[Japanrocks12]

She'd make a great totalitarian dictator.

 

[Dikaioma]

If you have 1 city close to him, he's off the charts pissed about close borders.

Oh man, tell me about it. I have never had issues with him, but this one game he was a neighbor, and he declared war on me for being too close. I was like "it's not my fault! the computer gods put me here!" Yeah, I killed him.

 

[calyth]

I guess the biggest problem is when people don't think outside the box. I used to think that giving a tech to an AI was a total no-no. Even converting to another Civ's religion to keep the peace I thought was a non-option.

The only game that I actually converted to the religion that she was running was because I couldn't get a holy city. The majority of the time I'd get Hinduism while she gets Buddism, and adopting her religion would simply give her too much advantage (she gets money and she gets to see my military). Even converting ot her religion will not guarantee peace. I've tried gifting resources, and tech, and manage to get on her good side, and she was pleased - until the continent ran out of neutral tiles, then she immediately declared war on me because I was on the majority of her border. It isn't like we don't try to please her. It's more like nothing will please this AI.
The only peace that I enjoyed when I converted to her religion is when she had a very small country, and not particularly strong.

I have easier time convincing Caesar/Tokugawa/Saladin from starting wars (all on the same map) than convincing Isabella to leave me alone.

 

[MadMaligor]

Calyth...

I dont know if its something else your doing but I have to agree with the "out of the box" thinkers. The two times where my state religion was the same religion as Isabella, kept her happy by agreeing to every demand and even tossing in a gift or two now and then when I was ahead of her, I ended up with a very very friendly ally. You do have to keep up with her on the military curve or at least be well defended enough not to make a tempting target. She litterally stomped Napoleon into the ground for me last game when he demanded I convert and went nutzo on me out of no where. Saved my bottom. Poor man met his Waterloo =)

 

[calyth]

I don't agree simply because I've tried those techniques. With the exception of converting to her religion (which I've got the liberty of doing once, and she was pretty weak then), I've tried gifting her resources, gifting her tech, and doing everything to keep her happy. I've even tried to spread my religion to her and see if she'd convert.
She just won't.
If there's a way to know for sure that she doesn't have a shrine for Buddism (which she's most likely to get), then switching over then wasn't then isn't that big of a deal. If she does have a shrine, she'll earning income for all the cities that you've spread her religion in, plus she can spy on your cities, and units surrounding the city. That right here gives her a strong military advantage (plus she gets the money to research/buy units), and you still can't really guarantee that she won't take you out.
Seeing her declare war even when pleased and when you're supplying her resources is good enough indication to me that something is whacked. In a Chieftain game (yes I suck, but I manage to keep Romans, Japanese and Arabs to tolerate me at the same time at this difficulty), I was gifting her money and 2-3 non-military resources, and probably gifted tech to get her to be pleased enough to open borders to try a conversion attempt, and she still declares war - at that game, I could definitely defend against her, but it's just very annoying that she'd do that.

The out of the box thinkers are right if I haven't tried what they've done - fact is I've done the majority of their suggestions. I didn't get an accurate result with converting to her religion though. I've learn my appeasement techniques in that Roman/Japanese/Arabian game, and it worked quite well, I've got all 3 leaders to be at least cautious with me. There's just no pleasing of the witch.

 

[romelus]

isabella always annoys me, but i'm most scared of mao. twice i shared the same religion as him, and he still declared war on me, 4 times (twice in each game). i now always build up my military if he's my neighbour.

 

[Jekyll & Hyde]

J: It's kinda ironic that this thread is filled with descriptors such as Whacked, Unbalanced, Annoying, Frustrating, Irksome, Appeasing, Nutzo, Mongering, Disruptive, and Crazy.

H: 'Cuz that's just what the crazy old world leaders were!

J: Just imagine what it was like to deal with the real thing!

H: Way to go Sid!!
J&H

 

[mother superior]

Option 1: Take her early with military

Option 2: Convert, Gift, Trade stroke her wild fantasies, and convince her to war elsewhere

 

[Tavenier]

I hate Isabella too. But I love the way every character really has... character!
Tokugawa hardly ever wants to trade anything. Even if they only have positive relations with you, like having the same religion.
India (Asoko and Ghandi) and Catharina always seem to be at the top three nations in score. Elizabeth is almost always last.