[BTS] Isabella Monarch Pangea shadow game

[Hamilton321]

A few years ago, I was seeking advice for how to play Civ IV, particularly the early game better. Gumbolt thought that it would be easier to help me if I posted a shadow game and linked this Isabella file as a candidate for a starting position for such a game. However, I had problems with technical issues that prevented me from loading and playing the save, and then I completely forgot about it. But if there are skilled players who are still interested in shadowing me for this game, I still would be interested in doing it and I will not be having the same technical issues this time.

I think the game start is very interesting, the start has food and production although I do not know what is in the fog of war. I usually play on emperor difficulty now, but I never have won as Isabella on anything above prince (I rarely play as anyone with her traits either), therefore I think that the game being on monarch is still accurate to my skill level. So, skilled players, look at the position and tell me where you think I should go from this position.

 

[Fippy]

Screenies (esp. of the start) will help you get more feedback

Double wet corn and stone are ofc very strong, and we can already tell you will build Pyras.
Not sure if much can be found out with your warrior, SIP is already very nice.
(always worth looking thou)

With so much food Agri - BW are easy early tech picks (Anarchy free slavery switch too),
stone always looks temping but not sure if delaying BW makes much sense.

 

[lymond]

My, what do you think about settling on the sugar here? Warrior not going to help much with settling decision one way or another. It does move away from stone, but one can grab that in time for Mids at least.

 

[Fippy]

Sure, i forgot about that option cos..luxury start
Sugar tiles are perfect for settling, i really should have seen it.

 

[Hamilton321]

So, I did not have much time today to play Civilization until now. I tried to follow your advice in this save, I completed the first twenty turns. I have a worker and a farm up right now, I then initiated construction of a warrior. I met Mansa Musa, who is somewhere to my east, I think he is close to me, but I have not found his territory yet. This time I have a screenshot attached to the file. My plan going forward is to build another worker, then chop a settler. For my second city I think that the stone tile looks good, it has nine forests available for chopping, and would be a coastal river city.

 

[Hamilton321]

I forgot to attach the actual save

 

[lymond]

Just looked at the pic as that was enough for now. (make sure city keeps high food tiles..although you might work 2F1H forest with citizen 3 if there is no difference in growth timing...just to speed up warrior a bit) Keep growing and improve your corns. If corns are complete before BW is in you could throw up maybe 1 grass mine, but be prepared to chop asap once it is in. With that food, you will switch into Slavery immediately and 4>2 whip your first settler. I would settle 1N of stone. City can share the plentiful food in Madrid while giving access to stone.

edit: OF from settler into new worker..likely with another chop to help finish

Setter can probably take 1 chop before the whip but keep track of production into Settler. Not sure how knowledgeable you are on whipping and stuff, but production into settler cannot exceed 69H in order to 2pop. (39H or less for 3pop)

Keep scouting fairly compact here...revealing tiles in a radius around your cap. Then spawnbust.

Put EP focus on Mansa for now..there is no one better for this than him.

New warrior will go S to scout and protect for new settler.

I would go masonry next to get that online soon. Mids is a must, but Henge and GW can be used for fail gold.

 

[Hamilton321]

Okay, I had quite a lot of time today, but got sick and today my head did not feel well enough to be on the computer for as long. In my game I completed 13 turns, a warrior, worker and researched Bronze Working, there is actually copper within my BFC. I am constructing a settler and researching masonry right now.

 

[sampsa]

2nd worker is a big mistake. With these tiles, just grow to 6 and whip a settler, OF+chop 2nd worker. The faster you settle your 2nd city, the faster it contributes.

 

[OldDude]

Wow, 3 corn with 2 being wet and copper in your BFC...not to mention being able to settle on sugar. What a great start. I may have to play along on this one!

 

[Hamilton321]

Alright, I have been so sick this past week, but anyways, it has been only about ten turns and the game is at a point where I have a few decisions. I built Barcelona north of the stone, I am building another settler but am not sure where to build my next city, probably somewhere to the east to block off Mansa Musa, although there are some good spots to the north. I am also not sure what to build next in both of my cities. I think that perhaps I could construct Stonehenge in Barcelona and Pyramids in the capital, but maybe that is not ideal.

 

[lymond]

Post saves.

I think I recall a pig just E such that you can settle a city just east to share one of the corns without worrying about the pigs initially.

I'm not sure how much production you have in the current settler, but one thing I see is that you are not 4or5>2 or 6>3 whipping your settlers with OF into workers...combined with chops. With that much food you need to learn to use the whip. That is one of the main things you can get out of this exercise.

I would probably have 6>3 the 2nd settler and timed a chop for likely a 1t worker with EXP (take note of trait bonuses and what the mean) With settler (and worker) whips you are turning food into production.

This is an excellent start position here..take advantage of it.

 

[Hamilton321]

Here, I am sorry about not exactly following the advice you have all given. Some of it kind of went over my head to be honest. In Barcelona I constructed Stonehenge and a settler which I finished with whipping. In the capital I finished the settler, I researched the wheel and connected Stone to my capital then I began construction of Pyramids. I have founded a third city in a place where it can take advantage of one of the corns in the BFC, it will be able to grow to take advantage of pig to the north and culturally expand into Mansa Musa's territory, Mansa Musa settled a city between me and him, blocking prospective expansion to the southeast entirely. It was an eventful 15 turns.

 

[lymond]

Ha..well that is what this is all for..if you don't understand something then ask questions. Shadow games are just as much about the discussions than just going through the motions.

 

[lymond]

Your not automating workers, are you? Anyway, don't stack workers this early. Move on onto hill 1E and chop (make sure forest goes to Cap for mids). Move other 1SE and chop into Great Wall, which will take the OF hammers this turn instead of new worker. (if you don't get GW, the great...fail gold)

Remember, good and meticulous worker management is one of the keys to getting better and moving up. Do not underestimate what you do with your workers. They are the most important unit in the game.

Make sure cities are working best tiles. New Madrid can work a forest grass tile from Cap.

Probably would have gone AH first here, but no matter.

Use 100% or 0% research..not in between...raise to 100% when enough gold to fund tech.

Only one met AI on Pangaea is odd. Must be a lot of land to the N and W. Barbs will be a bit of a problem soon. An Axe or two soon may be nice, although if you get GW you will be fine.

Warrior up N stays on PH 1S..I think with henge settling that PH is fine. City also 1NW of pigs W of Barc. And probably something up there next to cows and fps.

edit: why warriors standing in Madrid?

edit: do not automate units at all including warriors..spawnbust

 

[Hamilton321]

alright, I constructed both pyramids and the great wall and another city. I encountered another civilization as well. I am not exactly sure if I should do more settling now or if I should wait a little while. I think I will wait until my cities grow a little to have another wave of expansion. I plan to build some axemen and clear out the barbarian villages to my north. I think that technologically I will go for writing next..

 

[Gumbolt]

What is your actual plan to win here?
4 cities by 1120bc seems a touch light. Albeit you have built 3 wonders.
You need to capture those 2 barb cities. Axes would need catapults for Mansa.
AH seems quite important here. 5 turns off.
Your likely going to get a G priest or G spy from Barcelona. Not ideal really.

I think chopping is better than mines at this stage. Have workers ready to improve the pigs.

if you can whip axes with less than 5 hammers this will be good for overflow into other axes. You could put OF into barracks if under 20 hammers.

 

[pigswill]

It will be interesting to see how your game develops. Building wonders instead of settlers and workers may set you back more than it boosts your game. Guess we'll find out.

 

[Fippy]

I feel like mentioning that with such a good start, both Pyras and expansion can be done rather easily.
(and that Pyras are the only important wonder here, great wall is overall only good on deity and sometimes immortal if barb pressure is expected)

 

[Hamilton321]

Hello everyone, sorry for keeping you hanging so long with posting this, this is a pretty slow shadow game because of my lack of focus but I am working on progress on the game. I finished some more workers and axemen and I am preparing to assault the barbarian village to the north so I thought it might be a decent time to post my save. Moving forward I will build more cities to my north and then I will perhaps do a mid-game rush and then push toward a space race victory, though I probably should have already expanded more. I think that part of my problem is that I learned to play on the low-mid difficulties where there is not so much pressure to expand and conquer/settlemore cities. One final note; Do you really think that I should rush Mansa Musa? An early/mid game rush against him is expensive in my experience.