Isolated emperor start

[Mutineer]

ok,
Liberalism 1150AD.
I was thinking to delay it more, but cyrus got education.
I traded with him a bit to mach I think, so I harry up liberalism and got Constitution out of it.
I am on 5th turn of goldan age from Taj Maxal.

Save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84898/Snaaty_AD-1150.CivWarlordsSave

 

[Mutineer]

@ all:
When you gift a civ you meet for the first time a tech for free, you get a constant +4 on relations. Always good to remember that when you are playing an isolated start

That is incorrect.
You can get +4 for mach cheaper tech then useal, may be 4 times or more cheaper. Effect last for mach shorter time then useal fair trade and decay fast, but could be very usefull for instant good relationship.

 

[Snaaty]

@ Multineer:

Are you sure about the +4 on relations wearing of with time??? When it should wear of with time, it lasts at least much longer then the normal modifiers (from my experience at least)

 

[Mutineer]

actially very short time, check after 20 turns or so. But take in account that when trading you are getting normal fair trade bonus.

 

[Snaaty]

@ Mutineer:

The trade thing could be the point... ...because after the initial +4 I always trade with more or less all civs on the othe conti (probably within 20 turns each), so that´s why it seems that the bonus doesn´t war of...

Thanks again

P.S.:

Haven´t looked at your save so far, but your capital (size 18!!!) looks quite cool

 

[Snaaty]

@ Multineer:

Before I forget it again, please use spoiler tags when posting your game and strat. advices, thanks in advance

Spoiler :

I had a look at your last save and must say, that I´m quite impressed with your overall development.

Funny thing that you also couldn´t get your favoured tech as freebee (I missed democracy because of my stupid mistakes). I always try not to trade too much with the frist civ that´s sailing up to me, because they have the habit in appearing in very short order (within 100 years or so)

Your teching speed is very impressing (btw. what techs did you lightbulb?) and is more or less equal with mine and I lightbulbed quite a lot (I lightbulbed phil, paper, edu, lib (= 4 GS)) and build 2 academies. I have done only 2 techtrades im my game so far (machinery with Monty for phil. and music, optics, maps & money for phil and edu with Cyrus)

Do you usually build the tach mahal?

I always concentrate on getting only GS (5-6) in one city for building academies and lightbulbing and GM in another city (1-3), to fuel my medival war.

How do you usually do medival warfare? Drafting units, building units or a mixture of both? Do you prebuild units for upgrading later (to save time)?

 

[lilnev]

I've played to Liberalism in 1160. But I don't have it with me, so you have to wait til tomorrow for the report + saves.

peace,
lilnev

 

[Giaur]

Why is Industrious better for Isolated Island?

Charismatic is great, but financial is beaten by Industrious. But there is no Ind/Cha, so I took Bismarck ...

Forgot to say that next turn I will get GS, just to build Academy. Research increases to 180 before 100AD.

And wierd thing is that I have health problems with Exp leader. But those trees went for Pyramids and other staff.

Superspecialist in my capital makes my people finish their job faster, so I can produce research.

Great Game!

 

[Dirk1302]

Well i managed to play to lib, thx for waiting Snaaty.

Spoiler :

I played a pretty standard game, i chopped the oracle in second city so the capital GP pool would not be polluted. Usually i'd take monarchy but this time MC was attractive not for the tech itself but the map screams COLLOSSUS. I researched monarchy first since alphabet seemed less useful and monarchy even more useful than on a more standard map. Research was ok due to some early river cottages so GL was not in any real danger anyway with marble and lots of forests round the capital. After GL and NE were up i lightbulbed Philo and switched pacificm, CS came soon after around 300 AD. I then switched to compass, machinery and optics waiting for 4 scientist to make an academy and lightbulb Paper and education. Slightly lucky here but chances for GS were 83% all the way. Actually i thought of switching to caste system when i switched bureaucracy but food situation was not too great and i had 2 new cities up where granary and lighthouse had to be whipped. Looking back i think it was right not to switch to caste system. i sailed to the south and found Monty, another caravel is on his way east. I'm fairly happy with the current situation, it was not an easy start but i feel i'm at least par with the Ai's. Space race would be easy from here but i'm not so sure about domination. problem is i can't build HE and i still need to found a good production city at the moment, also astronomy will have to wait at least till i've met everyone because of collossus. But i'll try for the following scenario:

I'll take nationalism for lib, Next research will be drama, putting up theaters and building globe theater in the city on the east of the island drafting muskets one per turn. I think i'll go MT then. In the meantime i'll build (or even whip) chariots or harchers, i'll stop research after MT and upgrade to cavalry. Trade for astronomy then and sail to Monty. At least HE can be build during this war, then we'll see further.

 

[shyuhe]

snaaty, what/when is the next checkpoint? I'm going to have to change around my landscape if we have to do domination. Whip/draft will be a lot faster than production given our crummy little island.

 

[Mutineer]

well, some answers as far as I remember.

Spoiler :

I was running Pacifism most of turns, so I got a lot of Gp's. I switch to OR just a turn befor Taj Maxal would be build, to make betetr use of incoming shields from golden age. Thougth my new cities do not have correct religion yet, others do.
Philisofy and Education got GS'ed.
Divine rigth, Printing press and Music were Gp'ed.
Liberalism were GA'ed.
I do miss academy in capital, but did not had a spare GS. May be next one will go there, as ligthbulbing become less efficient now.

 

[Snaaty]

@ Multineer:

thanks again

...

@ shyuhe:

I think that from the actual point in the game, all could win space-race without any problems.

So I would prefere domination, because this victory condition has been discussed in some other threads (mainly futurehermite´s)

...

@ all:

I will do a little summary of all games submitted up to tomorrow (means I will do it tomorrow)

Spoiler :

I would say that we prepare to go to war against Monty, because his little island looks very ripe to be invaded (and it´s better to take him out now, before he reaches astro), so the next good and comparable checkpoint would be one turn before we declare on him.

Like that we can compare and discuss the various strats of war preparations and units used a little bit more in detail. I think this would be quite interresting and maybe even helpful for further games

What do you think about that???

(Next step of course would be to take out Monty, then we can discuss the victory conditions once more)

 

[Dirk1302]

Agreed, everyone seems to be well placed for space. Domination could be an interesting challenge from here.

Spoiler :

I'm not so well placed for domination now ( no He, no prebuild harchers, no good production city) though i've a very good city for the globe theater. In my first spoiler i already gave a very rough outline for my domination strat. Monty should be taken out asap now it think because we need his land badly for production and some extra science after Colossus is gone. If i can complete domination from position i'm in i'd be very satisfied about this game

 

[Mutineer]

Spoiler :

I played a few turns today, seens in my save I did not meat anyone yet. Now I explore thinks I would say Mounty does look like attractive first target. We darn way to isolated for my taste. Second thin I want to try is to play the same start again, but build GL+ToA combination and go south route. May be do that one day. Strat I used is the most general, relieble in my mind, sutable for most situations. South router strat less universal in my opinion, but for this civ it could be sutable.

 

[Snaaty]

@ Multineer:

No rules in this game, feel free to replay, test different strats... ...this is no competition... ...my main purpose in doing this quick play open games is to see and to compare different play styles and to lear a little for my own play (maybe next game we could even step up to immortal)

...

And yes, we really ARE isolated with the overall world position of our (low food and low production) island

 

[Mutineer]

Well, I played untill I am ready to declare.

Spoiler :

When I come darn Mounty upgraded to riffles, surpriselly to me.
He even did not know gunpowder 10 turns ago or so.
I really did not look when he darn got riffling, playing fast.
I am allmost thingking aobut turning around and go take on Washington insted, with whom I am in war anyway. But probably not, way to far away.
Mounti it is anyway, sjut need to grunt his forces to dust slowly.

save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84898/Snaaty_AD-1535.CivWarlordsSave

 

[Giaur]

Immortal sounds fine

edit: I am playing Bismarck too. I liked the idea of isolated island ... it makes game more difficult. But I am having some problems with maintanance, but soon I will adopt State Property.

 

[Snaaty]

@ all:

everybody feel free to start (and finish) the next round already... ...I would like to start the war against Monty this weekend (=next round), so we could leave the last two rounds (gearing up for endgame & endgame war for next week).

...

@ lilnev:

Where is your save? As soon as your save is in I´m going to close this round and start the final discussion of the pre lib game (=compare what we all have archieved) and then the planning discussion of the war agains Monty

 

[Snaaty]

So I also played up to 1 turn before I will declare on Monty in 1470 AD (I will still do the post lib writeup´s after lilnev´s save is in, but I felt like playing on a bit tonight)

Spoiler :

I started my warfare preps only 8 turns before mil.trad was in. My capital and one other city were building (=whipping) an elephant every two turns and then one treb each.

Another city (which wasn´t that good on food was building (=whipping every 4 turns) 2 more trebs.

The city at the east end of our continent build (=whipped) the globe and I was drafting a musket every turn (8 so far, more to come, but only 6 will join the warfare).

The city near the whines (east of the desert) was building (=whipping) a gallon every 2 turns.

4 chariots I still had from bronze age (I used as city garrison forces, will now be replaced by drafted muskets). This chariots will complete my invasion force.

Another 4 cav will be build (=whipped) while the first shipload of troops will sail over to Monty and will be shipped as reinforcements in the second wave.

...

So after 8 turns of toop building (=whipping and drafting) I ended up with:

6 elefants
8 muskets
4 trebs
4 chariots (alrady waiting to be upgraded)
4 gallons
4 cavs (in progress for second wave)

The money to do this war was raised via 2 trade missions (one finished, one almost finished), so after upgrading, we will have:

14 cav
6 muskets
4 trebs
4 gallons
(which is two shiploads a 12 = 24 units)

I would like to have brought more troops (normally I do 10 - 15 turns of troop building for the midgame war), but the long sailing distance and the fact that Monty is isolated and my army would be therefore useless after this war forced me to reduce it a little

First wave of attackers:

PIC REMOVED


My continent, now fully settled (I squeezed two additional northpolish cities in to profit some more from trade after I switch to free trade). All cities are still relatively small, but they will start to grow soon, because all infrastructure (and troops for this war) will be finished soon:

PIC REMOVED


So how did I play up to this war after lib was in in 1200 AD:

I took astro as freebee to trade in the happy resources needed for the whipping. Then I finished constitution (7 turns were left) and traded for banking. I revolted to rep and merk to beef up troop and GP production a little more. After the last GM and GS were in, I revolted to nationhood and free rel. to start drafting and to make some more friends.

…

@ Multineer:

Btw. the constant +4 on relations doesn’t wear of when gifting a tech on first meeting. I gifted Monty a tech and opened borders when I first met him in 1140 AD (tech was drama) and since then I never traded anything with him and refused all his demands (ignored him to test this) and he still hast the +4 on relations

…

Back to topics:

Later I traded gunpowder in, researched horseback riding, lightbulbed printing press (partly, the rest I researched) and are now on my way through dem. to build the SoL

The tech screen still looks quite impressive; I think I’m the most advanced nation by far, and except of Toku and Ragnar (they are mean) everybody wants to trade with me (even Monty, who will very likely be stomped to the ground soon)

SAVE REMOVED

 

[lilnev]

Well I didn't mean to hold up the party. I think my game is middling, not paricularly inspirational (some pretty good company here).

Spoiler to 1 AD:

Spoiler :

Knowing that this is an isolated start, I played it significantly differently than I otherwise would have. Maybe that's outside the spirit, I don't know. I'm anticipating lots of cottages with HR for happiness, so health becomes limiting. Fresh water, coastal and forests are valuable. A water-wonder (GLH + Colossus) strategy might also be in order. Grabbing city sites can be delayed in favor of vertical growth. I saw enough of the spoilers to know that there's Marble and Copper, but didn't check out the details (e.g. maps of city locations).

In general I don't like a capital without hills, so I moved NE-NW, then followed the blue circle W and settled on turn 3. Marble, cool. That means the Oracle and GL. This site can only support six cottages, but with Marble and a plains hill and lots of forests, I think it'll do.

Research Ag-Wheel-Pottery. In a not-known-to-be-isolated position, I wouldn't pursue this path. BW ftw! But here it makes sense; isolated starts are ultimately commerce-limited, and cottages are the best commerce.

Build worker-warrior-warrior-warrior, while growing to size 5. Again, knowing I'm alone means that vertical growth onto another tile is more efficient than 100 hammers invested into a settler. [edit: I'm not sure this is true, if the tile I'm growing onto is a mere forest. but it's done.] I've got all the time in the world to claim those spots.

Warrior pooped a map (no that's not a typo), then popped gold and more gold. My fogbusting is incomplete, without even considering the frozen north.

The capital at size 5. Masonry is in, and the Marble quarry is under construction.

Masonry-Myst-Poly-Priest. No time now for AH (what, do I want more food?) or BW [edit: again, I think this might be a misplay. Pigs are strong for building workers/settlers, which is what I need now]. I spawn a settler to poach the Corn and work a bunch of cottages, then it's the Oracle.

Unrelated fact: Gin and tonics are pretty good, but gin and tonics plus pomegranate juice are really good.

1640 BC. BW is in. Turns out my second city is built on Copper. Switch to Writing so the Oracle can hit CoL. A religion sounds nice.

1480 BC. Oracle, choosing CoL. Build an axeman, AH, then Sailing(towards GLH), Mono. Turns out one of my best villages in on the Horses. I told you I didn't scout the map.

325 BC, I got beat to the GLH. Damn. This date was probably pushing it, but I find the GLH frustrating. It's so variable how soon it goes. Alphabet, Math (it was mostly done to power up the chops), Lit, Monarchy.

75 BC, first great person, a Prophet for the Kong Miao.

1 AD. I expect my save will look rather backwards to y'all. Monarchy's not yet done, nor Philosophy. The GL is very nearly done, but besides that the Oracle it's my only Wonder. 5 cities, but some quite young (75, 250, and 750 BC). 2 towns, 2 villages, 3 hamlets, 4 cottages, and more on the way. I wonder if I should've taken Monarchy from the Oracle, to grow my cities sooner off cheap warriors.

And to Liberalism:

Spoiler :

Great Library in 50 AD, Monarchy in 75 AD, Bureaucracy in 475 AD. A GS in 660 AD founds Taoism.
Currency-IW (again, under a hamlet, but not a well-developed one so I mine it)-Compass (for cothons for health)-Paper, start on Ed.

Also, I milked enough barbarians out of the north to get a level 4 axe.

1000 AD. Another Prophet. Arrgh! I hate the Oracle! I'll finish Ed by hand, then.

Cyrus and his vassal Roosevelt arrive in 1090, both Christian, both lacking Philo and Ed. I'm just starting Liberalism, but I want to do significant back-filling before I meet the others. So Ed to Roos for Feud+MC+Construction+Drama. A few turns before Lib, they've devalued Philo, so I get what I can (cash+map) for it.

1160 AD, Liberalism taking Nationalism. And, a GA is born. Arrgh! Music is gone, too. Put him to sleep for now.

My city placements:

The financial picture:

70% at break-even. 7 towns, 19 villages, many hamlets and cottages. I think the plan is to self-research Machinery, then see if I can get Guilds+Optics from Cyrus for Ed (I'm assuming there's no PP to be had), plus perhaps Engineering for Lib. I want to do as much trading as I can now to avoid WFYABTA when I meet the others (though seeing Japanese and Viking colors on the map, there might not be too much trading to be had anyway). Then either military techs for a fast war, or PP/Democracy for an enduring tech lead and late war.

As far as warring with Monty, I'm wondering if the better plan isn't to draft a bunch of Rifles while teching to Infantry, then upgrade them all. Production opportunities on this island of ours are just lousy.

peace,
lilnev

p.s. Ah drat! I forgot to burn the saves to this CD (the machine I play on is not internet-connected). Ah well, play on. I'll get them up in a day or two. Sorry.