Japan's Kit

[HeroOfTheSword]

Hi all, so I've just played a few games with Japan and obviously went Authority first, and then Imperialism later on, culminating in three different starts all ending in disaster, always falling way behind in tech and not being able to make any impact with an army, even with god of war, zealotry, hero worship and warrior monk picked as beliefs as well as wonders that should bolster things like terracotta etc. So this latest game I've tried a different tact; going Progress to get expansion up and running early and then Artistry to bolster great works and by god it's miles better! I am actually enjoying the kit now although I still think the faith and culture on defensive buildings is rather pointless and wondered if that is something that could be changed?

I've seen a few proposals over the last year that seem to want to drastically alter the kit, many of them fun alterations, especially the unique forge by @Legen, but I'm thinking now that might be going too far? Would love to hear peoples thoughts on this!

Apologies in advance if I'm rehashing another thread, I can of course delete this if mods aren't happy with it.

 

[hokath]

Here are the proposals from the last congress

[Vote] Thread '(8-24) Japan'

Jul 24, 2024

Choose which components you want to see for the Japan!

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(8-24) 4UC Japan

This is a thread for discussing the addition of 2 more unique components to the Japanese civilization.

forums.civfanatics.com

Proposer: @pineappledan
Sponsor(s): @axatin

New Unit - Yamato Class (replaces Battleship)
available at Nuclear Fission
2000 Production Cost (+200 more)
65 CS, 80 RCS
3 Range
6 Movement
"Taikan Kyohosyugi" (Unit gains Great Admiral Points on Kill)
"Armor Plating I"
600 GAP on Construction
Enemies receive 400 Culture and 400...

• hokath
• Replies: 40
• Forum: Multi-Proposal Voting Threads

 

[andersw]

Hi all, so I've just played a few games with Japan and obviously went Authority first, and then Imperialism later on, culminating in three different starts all ending in disaster, always falling way behind in tech and not being able to make any impact with an army, even with god of war, zealotry, hero worship and warrior monk picked as beliefs as well as wonders that should bolster things like terracotta etc. So this latest game I've tried a different tact; going Progress to get expansion up and running early and then Artistry to bolster great works and by god it's miles better! I am actually enjoying the kit now although I still think the faith and culture on defensive buildings is rather pointless and wondered if that is something that could be changed?

I've seen a few proposals over the last year that seem to want to drastically alter the kit, many of them fun alterations, especially the unique forge by @Legen, but I'm thinking now that might be going too far? Would love to hear peoples thoughts on this!

Apologies in advance if I'm rehashing another thread, I can of course delete this if mods aren't happy with it.

What difficulty? what era is the most struggle and with how many cities?

I prefer rationalism over imperialism in 99% of the cases as wide warmonger (starting auth>fealty).
So much tile yield science, happiness and bonuses from great works (which matters since you grab from the AI).
Hero worship is nice as Japan but even for them not a must have, there are other solid options for wide (which also provides science).
(warrior monk is a mod or misspell?)

 

[crdvis16]

I've been playing a lot of Japan lately and having a rough go. But it's partly because I have some specific things I want to do and if they don't work out it makes me want to abandon the attempt. On Immortal/standard/standard my plan is:

-Authority/Artistry/Imperialism
-protection -> hero worship
-sufficient iron to spam Samurai early (5+ is ideal)

Authority starts can be the most hit or miss for me- you're a bit at the mercy of good barbarian camp luck and maybe having some nearby CSs to bully. So some % of games get rough right off the bat if Barb camps are sparse.

Protection is an easy grab- I've hardly ever missed it. But man is hero worship a beloved AI pick. I got beat to it by Ghandi of all people last game. It seems to go within the first 3 picks pretty often, so getting it as Japan isn't a given at all... my success rate is probably 50% or so. I typically won't quit here as long as the AI that got Hero Worship is at least close enough for me to attack first.

And then there's iron, which having in abundance doesn't seem all that common. A lot of games I'll have maybe 1 deposit in reach so just a few yields. There's CSs or trading as other sources but those aren't very reliable. Not being able to capitalize on Samurai feels bad.

There's also the early tech path reaching for walls and then iron early on. Having plantation or sea luxes is really inconvenient tech wise.

All of these taken together mean it's pretty easy for the plan to go wrong. To which you might say: boohoo- adapt, be flexible! And I can see your point. In terms of just trying to win the game, yes- flexible adaptation would be the answer.

But it just feels wrong to me to play Japan any other way, and less fun. The kit screams "go authority/imperialism, get hero worship, war your way to promotions and generals/admirals!". I mean- the kit is "buy 2 get 3 free" GG/GA into Artists/Writers/Musicians, how can you not pick the policy trees that let you buy GG/GA with faith or the founder that gives you tons of points towards them when you conquer a city? Why bother playing as Japan if you aren't going to lean into the kit? At that point, wouldn't most other civs be better choices to open with progress or to pick a different founder with?

In terms of possible changes, I wonder if a source of iron attached to walls could be reasonable/feasible? +1 iron from walls would make Samurai very consistent, no idea if there is any historical justification for it though. As for Hero Worship, that seems like more of a weird AI oddity- I can't fathom why Ghandi would pick it so highly or why it's favored by AI generally. I would think it should be picked only by high aggression AI civs and even then it's a bit of a risky "win more" type pick for an AI.