Jarcast's Duchy of Amalfi for VP

[jarcast2]

Big update online.
Go to first post to see the new design.

 

[TheHatOnTop]

I'm not sure if intended but I don't see great merchant points on coastal/merchant buildings - am I just reading the description wrong?

 

[jarcast2]

I'm not sure if intended but I don't see great merchant points on coastal/merchant buildings - am I just reading the description wrong?

It's not possible to attach great people points like you would do with yields (great admiral point is a yield).
So you cannot see them because they are added separately but they are there.

 

[TheHatOnTop]

It's not possible to attach great people points like you would do with yields (great admiral point is a yield).
So you cannot see them because they are added separately but they are there.

Thanks for clarifying dude, pretty good civ and flows pretty nicely into a diplomatic win.

 

[jarcast2]

New version online.

Changelog:

• UA change: Buildings gives +2 Production and Culture (was +1) but 0 Great Admiral Points (was +2).
• UU Comite: for every 2 Fondaci receive +1 Delegate for every 15 CS in game (was 10). Fondaco diplo bonus versus other civs is reduced from 15 to 10.
• UI Scaro: Gain +2 Great Admiral points at Navigation (was +1).

 

[Jeddite]

I will test soon but for now I think giving a very generic +2 production and culture to coastal/merchant buildings is very not unique, making this civ less new, unique in play and more like CS oriented Carthage copycat. I would suggest keeping great admirals points (perhaps one not two, that's too much for wide civs) and if reducing prod/cult to 1 or dropping one/both of them if necessary just in order to keep this civ more unique, or removing a very peculiar and frankly slightly unbalanced/unfun (you need units protecting trade routes/fondaci/diplomats/warring) mechanic of parking your units embared in the water, or just dropping it to one point. When it's two points and you have no from buildings you feel obligated to get as much of your units under those ships even if they are wasted there and it's really unfeaseble on harder difficulties. Maybe one point from parking in water so you do it with just spare units, it's still worth it, but also not working against using your units, and one point from buildings (maybe only naval, not merchant ones?)

Two questions before I play:

Comite - he can do town but can't do mission for gold and wltkds? so basically this is avoid purchasing in late game (like freedom full xp army or spaceship parts) and avoid wltkd bonuses stacking mechanism? (not hating, just claryfying, it is worth to be undermined in one thing if it creates new fun and strong mechanism).

Are the fondaci yields still invisible (with notification every few turns) making them having to be memorized if you minmax gold/science on next turn to finish techs and buy units/invest in buildings? That was my biggest pain playing it some time before, deity early and first half of the game is super sensitive, you need to know your yields precisely. If nothing can be done - I understand, but you can consider also buffing strongly yields to that player on CS, instead free invisible yields, for clarity and you have free extra trade routes for that fondaci anyway. Unless that's too hard to code or no funtionality exist or is against your concept too much - it's still great, fresh civ you made.

Also 1 delegate for 15 CS makes a huge map 12 civs/24 CS the biggest in the game make them the same amount as large/standard and even small map. It is still powerful but it's a bit odd, it equates it to just 1 in every map size anyway even those where 12 civs are blocking way by wars and competing for those CS. Also are trade routes/delegates from fondaci unlimited? I don't think you can exceeed 3 before info era anyway but still.

 

[Urzamax]

I will test soon but for now I think giving a very generic +2 production and culture to coastal/merchant buildings is very not unique, making this civ less new, unique in play and more like CS oriented Carthage copycat. I would suggest keeping great admirals points (perhaps one not two, that's too much for wide civs) and if reducing prod/cult to 1 or dropping one/both of them if necessary just in order to keep this civ more unique, or removing a very peculiar and frankly slightly unbalanced/unfun (you need units protecting trade routes/fondaci/diplomats/warring) mechanic of parking your units embared in the water, or just dropping it to one point. When it's two points and you have no from buildings you feel obligated to get as much of your units under those ships even if they are wasted there and it's really unfeaseble on harder difficulties. Maybe one point from parking in water so you do it with just spare units, it's still worth it, but also not working against using your units, and one point from buildings (maybe only naval, not merchant ones?)

Well, you don't need to use military units for it; missionaries and other civilians work too!

 

[Jeddite]

Well, you don't need to use military units for it; missionaries and other civilians work too!

Wow, that's nice catch! I would never guess. Missionaries and workers are much too valuable at the medieval era, actually even more than military units when at work, but there are some intermissions when my cohort of 15 workers in industrial and especially faith conserving after buying all faith buildings, reforming, etc. until you hit industrial for great people might work, them (or few inquisitors needed after you conquered some stuff) parked under warships (peer guys keelhauled all the time, maybe they like it) might be an alternative for a usual two/three relatively mediocre holy sites. Very observant of you, the sacred and the propane!

 

[jarcast2]

Comite - he can do town but can't do mission for gold and wltkds? so basically this is avoid purchasing in late game (like freedom full xp army or spaceship parts) and avoid wltkd bonuses stacking mechanism? (not hating, just claryfying, it is worth to be undermined in one thing if it creates new fun and strong mechanism).

Comite cannot do Trade Missions so no WLtKD.

Are the fondaci yields still invisible (with notification every few turns) making them having to be memorized if you minmax gold/science on next turn to finish techs and buy units/invest in buildings? That was my biggest pain playing it some time before, deity early and first half of the game is super sensitive, you need to know your yields precisely. If nothing can be done - I understand, but you can consider also buffing strongly yields to that player on CS, instead free invisible yields, for clarity and you have free extra trade routes for that fondaci anyway. Unless that's too hard to code or no funtionality exist or is against your concept too much - it's still great, fresh civ you made.

I don't know what you mean for invisible yields. The notification is every turn and tells you how much you receive from each civ/CS with a Fondaco, any other way would mean editing code for UI that would likely break compatibility with other mods and means update it every time VP devs update it, it's very inconvenient and not worth the effort.

Also 1 delegate for 15 CS makes a huge map 12 civs/24 CS the biggest in the game make them the same amount as large/standard and even small map. It is still powerful but it's a bit odd, it equates it to just 1 in every map size anyway even those where 12 civs are blocking way by wars and competing for those CS. Also are trade routes/delegates from fondaci unlimited? I don't think you can exceeed 3 before info era anyway but still.

Currently the bonus from Fondaci is unlimited (and the delegates stack).

 

[Jeddite]

@jarcast2 thanks for the answers, I'll try it today, it's such a shame civ doesn't have a dedicated italian faction (venice being a gimmick), thanks for bringing one to life!
one last thing: fondaco made at peace is still providing influence/yields if you are at war with the CS/civ? can you switch CS alliance during war with it due to influence accumulating or is it not working until you peace out again?

 

[jarcast2]

@jarcast2 thanks for the answers, I'll try it today, it's such a shame civ doesn't have a dedicated italian faction (venice being a gimmick), thanks for bringing one to life!
one last thing: fondaco made at peace is still providing influence/yields if you are at war with the CS/civ? can you switch CS alliance during war with it due to influence accumulating or is it not working until you peace out again?

Same as normal trade routes, when at war with a civ with a Fondaco, those yields are suspended until peace is back.
Technically it should switch, I have never experienced it because the CS's with a Fondaco were already allied upon war declaration, but I coded nothing that would prevent it, so it depends on VP mechanics.

 

[Relatyve Mind]

I feel like the 5 influence/turn from a fondaco in a city-state is too high. Does it scale downwards based on game length? It seems hard to counter-play that when fighting over a city-state that Amalfi started near (and thus the fondaco has had time to put up like 500 influence or so.)

Add in the +1 trade route/2 fondaco and it's pretty insane. And that's assuming you can only send a fondaco to a city-state once (assuming "foreign player" includes city-states, which is unclear).