JB2 - Neo-Fascists (C3C Deity)

Preturn: I think I will change some builds around. I think we want to finish settling the island, but I also think we would prefer to use the more outlying cities to do so and build up the less corrupt ones.
So:
Smyrna to settler (waste 2 shields).
Heraclea to settler
Adrianople to barracks
Constantanople to harbor
Varna to settler
Caesarea to settler

Wake up Elite archer in the N to keep the north under surveliance. Find a barb camp.

We havent grabbed the only iron yet. I will send a settler there immediately.

Not sure what to do with the 4 horsemen outside Varna. Guess we do better being fortified in town than on attack since the town is on hills. I will leave it.

Knowing only 1 civ makes tech prices high with the Greeks. I won't buy anything yet.

End turn.

IBT:
Nicea: Harbor->Dromon
Smyrna: Settler->Barracks

130 BC: Northern Archer attacks and kills a barbarian warrior. Find a second barb camp with warrior/settler (safe this turn).

Since the Barb Horsemen did nothing I switch Varna to an archer so I can attack them.

Send the settler on the marsh across the river and next to a barb camp. Fortunately, it was safe this turn.

Also change Sardica to a harbor if we can't get it irrigation.

IBT: The chinese have been destroyed. Is that the second civ gone. Oh good grief. What are the chances of that. The Greeks set up a city next to the barb camp near the settler so the settler can be attacked after all. Nicea goes unhappy.
Varna: Archer->Settler

110 BC: Attack 2 barb camps for 50 gold total. The island may now be clear. I kill one of the Barbarian Horses with the archer

IBT: Mayans contact us. Communications "can't be done". Will hope the other civs want to talk to us.
Adrianople: Barracks->Spear
Trebizond:Worker->Library

90 BC: Moving settlers to their spots.

IBT: Barb horse attack an archer. 2 killed, 3rd wins (on a hill).
Heraclea: Settler->Harbor
Caesarea: Settler->Library

70 BC: Build Dyracchium. Note that placement is to primarily not allow more greek cities at the moment. There is a boat with a probable settler out there. Raise Lux to 10%

IBT: Contacted by Aztecs
Constantanople: Harbor->Spearman

50 BC: Kill a barb horse
Build Septum to claim Iron.

IBT: We may lose the race to our Northernmost part of the island. Learn Mathematics start construction (for now).
Adrianople: Spear->Spear
Chalcedon: Worker->Settler
Naissus: Warrior->Worker
Greeks are building JSB.

30 BC: Buy Contact with the Zulu so I can get min prices.
Zulu seem weakest so I trade 22 gpt for Currency. Chaneg the production of most of our core cities to market places.

IBT: Mayans start Bachs.

10 BC: Build Nicomedia right away as Aztecs drop a settler.

IBT: More threats on our Northmost lands. Using units to cover.

10 AD: Trying to claim our continent still.

IBT: Varna: Settler->Market
Aztecs like JSB too.

30 AD: I think I am 1 unit short of keeping the Northmost Continent. Damn.

IBT: I lose the Southmost point too. The Greeks now have 2 cities on our continent.

50 AD: Move settlers some more.

Notes:
We have little military.

I grabbed what land I could of our continent. There will be 2-3 cities that are not our though. Some city placement is less than ideal since I had to place instantly or lose everything (especially in the N).

We have currency and are building Market places so we can start buying techs to get to the next age. We may want to go toward republic if we can.

I played my turns before your post Ben, but I think we had similar ideas, though I didn't yet worry on the FP as too much was going on (i.e. grabbing our island). The FP should be one of our next priorities I think as well as defense which I did little with as well (a few more spears).

Picture and Save:

JB2_AD50.JPG


The Save
 
:goodjob:, we are going well

I think republic might be a better option now than monarchy. Luxury trades will soon be available, and from looking at the save we can pick up quite a few.

Nicomedia could be moved after the Aztecs and Greeks are expelled from our continent.

It seems like there have been a few wars on the other islands, which in the long run will help us, as long as more AI's don't get eliminated.

IMO, for the FP, I would build it in Naissus.

Improviser
 
I got it.

I'll play it soon, but I want to stew over the FP placement first. Naissus feels good, but my feelings are based on old FP rules. My concern is that it won't really help the Trebizond-to-Chalzidon NE/SW line, since they won't be any closer to it than the Palace. Then the cities to the south are already corrupt due to rank, so the distance part is less effective.

If there's a flaw in that logic, it's in my overestimating rank corruption to the south. I'll look at the save, but would appreciate any comments from the team and especially knowledgeable lurkers about what the smart placement is.
 
jb2-dot_ad50.jpg


This is the last dotmap for the southern provinces, and is the relevant one for FP placement. Settlement in the north will be based on what exactly the Greeks do.

Orange dot: Greebley has planned ahead and left me a Settler along with enough workers that the marsh will be cleared next turn; thanks. I remember thinking, "That looks like a good spot... Hey. What's the giant stack doing there?"

Yellow dot: The best placement on the river, given the constraints of existing cities.

Blue dot: This one is just to grab a few unused tiles by Trebi, Varna, and Dyr. Chosen instead of the banana square because of the commerce bonus we get for settling on the coast.

I think Greebley did a great job considering the Greek pressure. But now that you can see what our city layout will be, what about the FP? I still like Varna, but would be willing to hear arguments for Caesarea and Naissus. The last already has 1 vote; any other opinions?
 
Your proposed city sites are identical to my thinking when playing.

As for the FP, putting it in the first ring (Varna) seems too close, though it does allow us to move our Palace when we attack onother continent if we wanted to. This is based on older thinking as well though. I would have to review the new rules to decide. I think Varna is a good choice if we do plan to move the palace. The yellow dot would be a nicer place in the long run (assuming the palace was staying put), but would require massive worker turns to get up and running.
 
I think when I was suggessting Naissus I was partially thinking in terms of the old FP. I think Varna might be a better spot, as the FP can be built quickly, which is more important than the perfect location.

Improviser
 
Just a few comments from an interested lurker: :)

This game is very winnable. My favorite (solo) Deity win on PTW was a situation fairly similar to this, and I didn't even try to build the Great Library. Once you can get your cities growing you'll be buying techs faster than 4-turn research and be caught up in no time. Don't be alarmed to be in the Industrial age and defending your cities with Warriors (and having over half of your "military" be workers), because you never had any lulls from infra to build military. :lol:

You will also be able to profit enormously from having a monopoly on Ivory. Since you are still the smallest civ in population you should be getting paid with every lux-lux exchange, to be able to buy even more technology.

One caveat, if you want to build the Statue of Zeus (you almost assuredly are the only ones who can), trading Ivory to another civ may allow them to build the SoZ also. This may mean Ivory will be worth even more on the first trading-pass, until the cascade takes out the wonder.

I'm not sure whether both parties have to be able to "see" a trade route to do resource exchanges. If so, you would have to buy a WM from someone to be able to trade your lux away.

This map is not a good set-up for a military victory (see comment about lulls in infra building), so just beat 'em into space.
 
OK, I'm sorry for being negative. I have won deity games from similar positions, but I have normally used TOE as a crutch, which we are not allowed. Also, the mods that have been made to this game will mean the AI are more productive, earlier than usual, and finally, 2 civs have already been taken out of the game so the remaining civs will have a high tile count. I'll be interested to see how it goes.
 
The only opinions expressed gave at least some positive feedback towards FPing in Varna. That's where I wanted it so that's where it's going.

Inherited Turn: Our workers are set to clear a marshland next turn and are stacked with a settler. Two other settlers are within a couple turns' march of our dotmapped cities. Life is good when you're a forgotten primitive rainforest tribe. Varna is immediately switched to Forbidden Palace. I notice we can now build the Statue of Zeus, but who're we gonna use it against? Greece? Hm... Greece... Anyway, as desparate as our need for Workers is, I veto the 2 of them in the south in favor of a pair of warriors. Greece can put Knights on this island, and I don't want Al seeing empty cities any longer than absolutely necessary.

IT: The Greek settler in the north plops down where he stands. The bad news is he poaches our last Ivory. The good news is that it's only enough for domestic use, so he won't break our trade monopoly. It'll be a while before he has it roaded & harbored up anyway.

AD 70 (1)
Amorium founded > Library

AD 90 (2)
Ancyra founded > Worker (Whoah! Banana is a food bonus? I veto 2 workers clearing jungle individually to get them started on an adjacent banana jungle.)
We can trade maps with the Mayans, Aztecs, and Greeks?! Well, at least it means we can sell them Ivory when a Harbor is up... 20 gold for the map to the Greeks, and it's worth 3 gpt in trade to the Aztecs, and 2 gpt in trade to the Mayans (based on tech prices; they won't actually pay credit). What this effectively means is that I get to be the one to decide whether we go for Monarchy or Republic, and I say anyone who thinks Monarchy is the right move is insane. 101g, 2gpt, World Map to the Aztecs for Philosophy. The Incas will accept 13 of our 14 gpt along with the Map for CoL; since we're waaaay under our unit limit (i.e. our costs will not be increasing, and income will only go up as we grow), I go for it. We can't buy Republic; it's too expensive in AI eyes. I start min science. 2 gpt won't build up enough "protection money" fast enough to matter; I'd rather get the 50-turn count started. Heaven forbid it actually takes that long. I hope we can actually fund its research, but just in case...
It is at this point that I realize that the "Greek" city in the north of our island is actually Aztec. They're about the same strength on the graph, but it's still much better this way since we can fight "La Reconquista de Byzantium" against separate powers, instead of having to rush our cavalry on a 4(!) turn journey from one end of the island to the other.

AD 110 (3)
Constantinople's growth earns it a scientist; science set to 0%. Ah... it's been a while since I've got to sling the world map around for pennies because I needed the pennies. Anyway, apparently we were waiting for the Bad Guys to build harbors since Nicaea already had one. But now we can trade off Ivory (to the Aztecs, Greeks, and Mayans specifically)! This effectively means giving up on the Statue, but the possibility of a few free units after 30 turns and 200 shields just isn't worth it.
But here's the problem: since everyone's trade routes came online at the same time, what happened was that one civ built a harbor, and everyone else's trade route to us depends on roads to that harbor. We can safely trade per-turn for per-turn; breaking that deal pisses people off but our credit is still good. But if we swap Ivory for tech, and that deal gets broken our credit (and probably our game) is shot. Our trade route with the civ who build the harbor is inviolate, but a war beyond our control could break the road-harbor trade route with either of the other two civs we can trade with. So what's the big deal? We don't know who built the harbor.
Net result: We ship the Greeks Ivory for 7gpt (market price) and the Mayans Ivory for Spices (below market price, but the best I could do). The Aztecs can only offer 1gpt, so they can stuff it. We're at 12gpt.

IT: Mayans start the SoZ (surprise!). Greeks land north of the Aztec settlement. And I know I'm not supposed to curse on the forums, but I really, really, really want to. TEN horsemen ride north out of the fog surrounding the greek city of Halicarnassus.

AD 130 (4)
Brusa founded > Worker (love that fruit!)
I withdraw from Dyrrachium. Let 'em have our 15 gold. Adrianople grows, so I fire the scientist at Constantinople to let both grow again. Lux 10%. I hire a scientist in one of our jungle towns where it doesn't matter.

IT: We lose 9 gold and a population from Dyr to the 10 horsies. Not too bad.

AD 150 (5)
Septum Warrior > Worker
The Aztecs have 8 gpt to offer us for Ivory. It's pretty lame, but we're really poor. I'm talking 50% boost to income poor. I take it. Besides, by the time these horrible deals expire we should be able to start trading the Ivory for tech, so the sooner these weak deals start the sooner they stop. I crank up research on Republic to 30%, due in 22, +3gpt. Our minimal scientist is about become a Worker anyway.

IT: Aztecs complete Copernicus & start SoZ. Americans start Leo's.

AD 170 (6)
Naissus Worker > Worker
Workers shuffle; all our cities now have at least 1 military unit. (That's something to be proud of?)

AD 190 (7)
Adrianople Market > Warrior
Nicaea Settler > Barracks
Nicomedia Warrior > Library
Settler stays in Nicaea. He's waiting for something to start between the Aztecs & Greeks. Maybe it should have been vetoed, but I personally like having an extra around... just in case. Kick science up 10%; due in 20, +2.

IT: America drops a pikeman next to

AD 210 (8)
Adrianople Warrior > Worker

IT: Another American Caravel sails into view. Since his pike is content to stay outside of Marathon, I'm hoping Abe is just exploring or harassing Al.

AD 230 (9)
Adrianople Worker > Spearman
Consatinople grows to 7 but needs no happiness adjustment. That's great news.

IT: Americans add a Spearman to its Pike.

AD 250 (10)
Nothing.

Notes for Improviser:
* Chalcedon is 1 turn from building a Settler that we might not need. Consider vetoing it for a Courthouse or a Harbor. The American "buildup", though, makes me wonder if there might be some burning going on to the south, so it's not an easy call. To compromise you could veto the settler and run the one in Nicaea down south, but it'll take a long time. It's a big island.
* Adrianople is at a really nice 10spt, 2fpt. I say go Spear, Spear, Worker for as long as we're in Despotism.

Notes for Kuningas:
* Right now renegotiation of deals is turned on. Don't forget about our Ivory sales anyway. We should be safe to start shipping it for technology after those run out.

Notes for Everyone:
* The Republic is due in 15 at +4gpt, and that'll probably change a lot as our cities grow and the jungle shrinks. Once we make the jump into Republic, you have to pay close attention to unit support. With cities being worth 3 units and towns only worth 1, that hop from 6 to 7 population is worth 4gpt per city. (Does Seafaring commerce scale with settlement size?) Until then, cities are only worth face value, so Adrianople's 6-population cycle is fine. After the revolution we'll want to let it grow, along with as many other towns as we can manage.
* FP is due in 41 at Varna, but there's still time to veto it (but I'd rather we not). Keep the jungle ahead of Varna's population and irrigate the fruit as soon as you can without hampering FP production. One fruit is already on a river, but the other one will require a "dead" irrigation to get water there.
* Sell those World Maps! We've got to play tight to win this one.

At least they can't give us smallpox blankets
 
Slow but steady :goodjob:


Ted
 
JB2- 250 AD

Preturn-Everything looks good. We have 17 cities, which is quite a resonable number, and that should easily be enough to
get us caught up in technology after we change governments. I do not veto the settler, as those american units look very
suspicious just sitting near the Greek city. I will keep Adrianople on the cycle that Justben suggested.

Turn 1 (260 AD) Adrianople- Spear-> spear. Chalcedon-Settler -> Harbour.
The most advanced nations of the world are, in order
from top to bottom, Greece, Aztecs, Maya, America, Zulu, and then us.
Workers begin to clear the jungle from the tropical fruit tile. Sell WM around for a total of 3 gold. I move the settler
to Amorium, America has not done anything with its troops.

Turn 2 (270 AD) Constantinople- Marketplace->Dromon (to investigate what units are in the towns on our island) .
Sardica Harbour-> Library. Ancyra-Worker-> Worker. Tenochtitlan completes
the statue of Zeus. The Maya variously cascade to Bach's and Shakespeare's as well. Settler fortifies in Amorium. The
Maya also have 5084 gold!! and far too many cities.

Turn 3 (280 AD) Adrianople- Spearman-> Worker. I switch the Library in Trebizond to a harbour, so that the city can continue
growing. I swap the barracks in Nicaea to a library. Until some deals expire there is not much I can do.

Turn 4 (290 AD) Adrianople- Worker-> Spearman. Dyrrachium- Worker-> worker. Brusa Worker-> Worker. Sparta completes
Leonardo's workshop. Cascade goes to Bach's. The Maya also start Smith's. Strangely I cannot sell our map at all this turn.

Turn 5 (300 AD) Caesarea- Marketplace-> Library. Septum Worker-> worker. A big gpt deal expires next turn, and I will try
and acquire a map (although it was not mentioned in our discussions, I think getting a WM will be very important).
Greece now has 4763 gold.

Turn 6 (310 AD) Adrianople- Spear-> Spear. Naissus- Worker-> Worker. The Greeks start Smiths. We now have 66 gold and
28 gpt. Unbelivably, I cannot afford to buy a world map. I buy Republic and Ceremonial Burial from Greece for WM, 23 gpt
and 50 gold. (They are the only commercial civ- they will have the cheapest prices). Research is switched off, and we have
another 37 gpt to play with. I immediately revolt to republic (I don't know if I should have made any trades for the rest of
our gpt first). I draw a 5 turn anarchy. We make -23 gpt with 16 gold in our treasury. I set tax collectors (one in any city
that can support one without starving, and we make + 9 gpt. I then trade Shaka 16 gp and 8 gpt for Horseback Riding (to prop
Shaka up as the Zulu are the smallest AI civ). I think we should only buy technology from the Greeks or the Zulu.

IBT the American pike attacks the Greek city of Marathon and loses.
The Aztecs are building Smith's Shakespeare's and Magellan's as Xochicalco (Aztec) completes Bach's.

Turn 7 (320 AD) Anarchy. IBT Greece starts Smiths.

Turn 8 (330 AD) Anarchy. IBT Athens completes Magellan's. Copan (Mayan) builds Smith's.
The american spear defeats a unit, and then on the Greeks turn
is killed by a longbow.

Turn 9 (340 AD) Anarchy.

Turn 10 (350 AD) American and Greek boats sail into our vision. Anarchy.


We come out of Anarchy in one turn, and after resetting the tax collectors we should still make a fair amount of money. Our
cities really need to grow now, to get the improved unit support bonus. We should definently be able to get into the Medieval
age on the next 10 turns. Good lucK!

I hope I didn't revolt too early, I hope we can actually make a positive income in republic.

Improviser


To republic and beyond...
 
Got it. I'll peek discussion until night.

Should we try to trigger our GA? I'd like to give try for the Dromons.
 
We probably need to get a few more troops together (maybe wait until we get Pikes/MDI, which shouldn't be long at all), then we can try to boot Greece off our continent, and trigger our golden age with a dromon at the same time. Although the problem with Greece is that they will give us our best prices for trading being commercial. We could try and remove the aztec city from our continent, wait for them to send a ship over, and then kill it with a Dromon to trigger a golden age. That might be a better plan.

Improviser
 
If this were a Demcracy :) I'd vote for tackling the Aztecs first in case our island is the only source of Ivory.


Ted
 
Additionally, we might just have enough troops to tackle the Aztecs now :)... as sad as it sounds, I don't think we could tackle Greece yet, even with 3 corrupt cities against our 17 cities.
 
Yes. I would vote for evicting the Aztechs. I would keep the Greeks on- side for now. We could try exerting some cultural pressure on their cities, though I know it's a long shot.
 
Our island is the only source of Ivory. Everyone wants it.

We should not worry about triggering the GA until we're ready to push someone off of our continent. We should also be sure that we have something to build with the GA. I'd rather our improved production get dumped into Banks than Cathedrals. And heaven help us if we're still clearing jungle in the middle of the GA.

We're not catching up anytime soon. With Currency and the Republic now secured, we don't have to worry about another really influential technology until Banking. Let's just play it cool until we get at least within striking distance of that. A stack or 2 of MedInf should be fine for The Reconquest, and I wouldn't want to try it with anything less.

We may need to turn research back on for Feudalism; I hate how it gives a government. Hope we roll it as our freebie. I wish we could leave it behind, but MI will probably be important to us.

Roster:
Ben
Improviser
Kuningas (up next!)
TedJackson (on deck)
Mad-Bax
Greebley
 
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