Jester's Final Prediction Thread

[chaosprophet]

Let's hope for he best possible outcome: 4 wonders in conjunction with 4 natural wonders

That would be better indeed, wouldn't put it as likely as I would expect them to list it, but then at least the collections both ends their description with "And more". And I guess, maybe when they said they add X civilizations, that counts already everything that comes with it, as the packs don't list new buildings nor new units, but those are included in each civ, so maybe the associate wonder work the same? Like how the Tecumseh and Shawnee pack only says it adds the leader and that civilization, even though adding the Shawnee means adding also a wonder, an improvement and 2 units.

 

[Krikkit1]

I see what you mean now. I'm almost wondering if things have been deliberately omitted? I am seeing "gaps" in our images of the tech tree where an unlocked building or wonder or something should go. Maybe you can't even play wonders until you've "unlocked" them by playing the civ.

There is no way they are doing anything outside of the game you are playing to unlock something. (other than downloading it)

 

[Siptah]

That would be better indeed, wouldn't put it as likely as I would expect them to list it, but then at least the collections both ends their description with "And more". And I guess, maybe when they said they add X civilizations, that counts already everything that comes with it, as the packs don't list new buildings nor new units, but those are included in each civ, so maybe the associate wonder work the same? Like how the Tecumseh and Shawnee pack only says it adds the leader and that civilization, even though adding the Shawnee means adding also a wonder, an improvement and 2 units.

But if Right to Rule would ship with 8 wonders total... I mean, the wonder bloat is already real in the base game. In civ VI it was already less of a race who can finish a wonder faster but more one à la "be lucky that no deity AI chose the same wonder and build it uncontested." I feared that this will return in VII already in the base game with 40+ wonders. With 52+ by September...

 

[RedCourtJester]

There is no way they are doing anything outside of the game you are playing to unlock something. (other than downloading it)

Lol well you quite literally have to play to unlock things in a playthrough, so that's not much of a stretch.

Maybe those buildings are in fact locked behind civs you haven't unlocked yet.

I also think it's quite likely you can just unlock every civ with a single civ and the patience to complete all of their prereqs.

I don't know, still too early to tell, but I could see a very forgiving system that encouraged playing other civs to sped up unlocks, while still affording you plenty of flexibility/access otherwise.

But if Right to Rule would ship with 8 wonders total... I mean, the wonder bloat is already real in the base game. In civ VI it was already less of a race who can finish a wonder faster but more one à la "be lucky that no deity AI chose the same wonder and build it uncontested." I feared that this will return in VII already in the base game with 40+ wonders. With 52+ by September...

Maybe wonders are less wondrous, or everything else has been tuned up to decentivize competing for wonders.

I was noticing a lot of wonder spam in the Augustus video though, and was "wondering" if that would be normalized. I like wonders, but I don't want the gameplay to be nothing but building wonders, and left with implausibly extravagant cities lol.

 

[chaosprophet]

I see what you mean now. I'm almost wondering if things have been deliberately omitted? I am seeing "gaps" in our images of the tech tree where an unlocked building or wonder or something should go. Maybe you can't even play wonders until you've "unlocked" them by playing the civ.

Could it be that case? Sure. Is there any evidence for it though? Or is it more that for things to fit your guesses it must, so for that reason alone it already seems probable to you?

I do wonder if DLC civilisations for the human player can be unlocked by anything. Like you are paying for extra content so that content should always be available to you logic. They can squeeze in a few otherwise problematic choices that way….

Not sure what the AI would do though besides Tecumseh always picks Shawnee and otherwise just randomly picks from the remaining choices.

Assuming they want to keep each civ with at least two free unlocks for the next age, I think one thing that can work for them is if they put at least two exploration and moderns civs in the base game for a region, and so any single alone civ can just fit like the other civs of that same region and have the same free unlocks as then, even if not as fitting, while collections that may add more like paths, could do the same if you buy an civ individually, but then change if you also bought the other ones of the pack or future ones.

At least I don't see a problem with Civ X going to B1 and B2 as unlocks, which are on the base game, and then if you also get civ Y from a separated dlc, then they change it to X going to B1 and Y, or maybe even just add as more and more options, so X going to B1, B2, and Y.

But if Right to Rule would ship with 8 wonders total... I mean, the wonder bloat is already real in the base game. In civ VI it was already less of a race who can finish a wonder faster but more one à la "be lucky that no deity AI chose the same wonder and build it uncontested." I feared that this will return in VII already in the base game with 40+ wonders. With 52+ by September...

You have a good point. Also I need to correct myself there, we don't really know if the pack adds the Serpent Mound, or if it exists in the base game as a wonder without associated civ.

But yes, even this aside, the game will soon be crazy bloated with wonders as we get more and more civs with dlcs and expansions... maybe one of the expansions will have to rethink the wonder game. At least lets hope it is a sign Civ 7 will be a wonder-full game!!

 

[Krikkit1]

Lol well you quite literally have to play to unlock things in a playthrough, so that's not much of a stretch.

Maybe those buildings are in fact locked behind civs you haven't unlocked yet.

I also think it's quite likely you can just unlock every civ with a single civ and the patience to complete all of their prereqs.

I don't know, still too early to tell, but I could see a very forgiving system that encouraged playing other civs to sped up unlocks, while still affording you plenty of flexibility/access otherwise.



Maybe wonders are less wondrous, or everything else has been tuned up to decentivize competing for wonders.

I was noticing a lot of wonder spam in the Augustus video though, and was "wondering" if that would be normalized. I like wonders, but I don't want the gameplay to be nothing but building wonders, and left with implausibly extravagant cities lol.

In the game you are playing..
Anything I do in one game only unlocks things for that game (research gunpowder, unlock muskets..play as Greece, unlock Normans)…it doesn’t unlock anything for future games.

 

[Siptah]

In the game you are playing..
Anything I do in one game only unlocks things for that game (research gunpowder, unlock muskets..play as Greece, unlock Normans)…it doesn’t unlock anything for future games.

didn't they announce some form of meta unlocks at some point? I vaguely remember speculations. Not that I think it would be civs (rather visuals, like the deluxe cosmetic bonuses).

 

[Evolena]

Well, every player must have a chance to compete for this 7 Wonders Cultural Legacy Path, so more Wonders the better!

 

[RedCourtJester]

Could it be that case? Sure. Is there any evidence for it though? Or is it more that for things to fit your guesses it must, so for that reason alone it already seems probable to you?

Well no, I really don't have any good guess or satisfactory answer to that. Whatever I did say was just speculation because we don't fully know how much the game itself omits certain things.

But check the images for yourself. There are clearly like "blank spaces" in some of the techs. Which feel like they could be wonders but I don't think we can really assume as much yet.

Heraldry, Education, Castles, Astronomy

Civilization VII – The tech tree - CivFanatics

In Civilization 7, each of the three eras (antiquity, age of exploration, modern age) will have a separate tech tree.Each technology can be resarched multiple times, called "mastery", probably giving better bonuses. You can discuss the tech tree with us here. Currently we have seen only the tech...

www.civfanatics.com

Although I probably could be incorporating tech/civic trees into my speculation, I don't really feel the need to be that granular, but if people do spot anything that suggests things that are contrary to my predictions then that would be nice to know.

 

[Evolena]

didn't they announce some form of meta unlocks at some point? I vaguely remember speculations.

The recent Dev Diary quite refute that for the Leader Attributes Points at least, so I don't know what would be left...profile badges?

 

[Zaarin]

The recent Dev Diary quite refute that for the Leader Attributes Points at least, so I don't know what would be left...profile badges?

Most likely, or else some kind of minor cosmetics.

 

[chaosprophet]

didn't they announce some form of meta unlocks at some point? I vaguely remember speculations. Not that I think it would be civs (rather visuals, like the deluxe cosmetic bonuses).

I believe that idea comes from two parts in the FAQ:

Does Sid Meier's Civilization VII support cross-play?

Yes! Players who link their 2K Account to Sid Meier's Civilization VII will be able to play multiplayer across any platform of choice.*
*Online play and features (including progression bonuses) require an Internet connection and 2K Account (minimum age varies).

Does Sid Meier's Civilization VII support cross-progression?

Yes! Players who link their 2K Account to the platform used to play Sid Meier's Civilization VII will share game progression to any platform linked with the same account.

That term progression bonuses, and being shared between platforms if you have the same 2K account, does indicate something there, but I don't think so far we have any idea of what it could be. Like Evolena said, before people assumed it could even be some kind of leader bonuses, probably because we didn't quite understand the idea of leader attributes back then.

Well no, I really don't have any good guess or satisfactory answer to that. Whatever I did say was just speculation because we don't fully know how much the game itself omits certain things.

But check the images for yourself. There are clearly like "blank spaces" in some of the techs. Which feel like they could be wonders but I don't think we can really assume as much yet.

On the Exploration, yes, not on the Antiquity one though. Albeit those are much more likely a bug / unfinished UI for the tech tree than what you suggest.

 

[Siptah]

Well, every player must have a chance to compete for this 7 Wonders Cultural Legacy Path, so more Wonders the better!

If we get 7x5 = 35 wonders in Antiquity, we might finally have a chance to see a wonder from Egypt that isn't a Pyramid or from Ptolemaic times.

 

[RedCourtJester]

If we get 7x5 = 35 wonders in Antiquity, we might finally have a chance to see a wonder from Egypt that isn't a Pyramid or from Ptolemaic times.

Pyramid of Djoser
Pyramid of Sneferu
Pyramid of Khufu
'Nother Pyramid of Sneferu
Pyramid of Khafre
Pyramid of Menkaure
...Pyramid of Sneferu

 

[Zaarin]

If we get 7x5 = 35 wonders in Antiquity, we might finally have a chance to see a wonder from Egypt that isn't a Pyramid or from Ptolemaic times.

It would be lovely to get the temple complex at Karnak or Luxor as a wonder.

 

[Siptah]

Pyramid of Djoser
Pyramid of Sneferu
Pyramid of Khufu
'Nother Pyramid of Sneferu
Pyramid of Khafre
Pyramid of Menkaure
...Pyramid of Sneferu

yeah, there are 105 of them in my current count in modern Egypt. But still... chance would be increased that they would use something else. No one needs Lepsius XXIV as a wonder after all. Khufu, Khafre and Menkaure have all been featured btw.

 

[chaosprophet]

Well, every player must have a chance to compete for this 7 Wonders Cultural Legacy Path, so more Wonders the better!

You make a very good point. The others legacy paths are possible for all players to get in the same game, even if difficult (getting enough land for all those settlements and resources), but the wonder one is actually impossible for everyone to get, and really hard if too many players are aiming for it at once, and harder the more players are in the game, as increasing map size won't increase the amount of wonders available and there is the whole associate system making it so at least each AI is likely to build their associate one.

In MP then, it would be crazy, a players are likely to aim for wonders way more than AIs....

This may be something they will have to balance in the future, or maybe the eventual wonder bloat would help with that.

 

[RedCourtJester]

You make a very good point. The others legacy paths are possible for all players to get in the same game, even if difficult (getting enough land for all those settlements and resources), but the wonder one is actually impossible for everyone to get, and really hard if too many players are aiming for it at once, and harder the more players are in the game, as increasing map size won't increase the amount of wonders available and there is the whole associate system making it so at least each AI is likely to build their associate one.

In MP then, it would be crazy, a players are likely to aim for wonders way more than AIs....

This may be something they will have to balance in the future, or maybe the eventual wonder bloat would help with that.

Well we have ample reason to believe there were 13 antiquity civs in that screenshot (we still have not seen, by my guesses, Norse, Wagadu, and Yamatai wonders). I do not believe Mississippians are included there, so that's 14. Plus I do not believe that Teotihuacan, Nalanda, Mausoleum of Theodoric, Emile Bell, Dur-Sharruken, Hanging Gardens, or the Colossus will launch with an associated civ.

So by my estimates that's at least 21 antiquity wonders at launch, 20 if you believe Mississippians are in base game, and maybe one or two less if you are gunning for Assyria, Babylon, or Goths at launch.

That's actually a hefty number to work with for a 7 wonder cultural victory already, and as you guys have observed will get easier the more we add.

 

[Siptah]

It would be lovely to get the temple complex at Karnak or Luxor as a wonder.

... wait for the Karnak temple coming with the buildings the Romans added and FXS finding a way to display Luxor temple with the modifications done by Alexander. Those would be great choices nonetheless. But one could also go a bit less-wondrous and have Set Maat as a wonder that helps with building wonders. Actually, such a bonus would also work great with the Pyramids... well, at least they won't be super-granaries anymore.

 

[chaosprophet]

Well we have ample reason to believe there were 13 antiquity civs in that screenshot (we still have not seen, by my guesses, Norse, Wagadu, and Yamatai wonders). I do not believe Mississippians are included there, so that's 14. Plus I do not believe that Teotihuacan, Nalanda, Mausoleum of Theodoric, Emile Bell, Dur-Sharruken, Hanging Gardens, or the Colossus will launch with an associated civ.

So by my estimates that's at least 21 antiquity wonders at launch, 20 if you believe Mississippians are in base game, and maybe one or two less if you are gunning for Assyria, Babylon, or Goths at launch.

That's actually a hefty number to work with for a 7 wonder cultural victory already, and as you guys have observed will get easier the more we add.

Even that 21 number already would be tough. A 5 player MP would likely have at least every player build at least 3 from normal play so filling 15, then we would have 3? AI civs being active in the other side of the world probably building a wonder or two, so would already be very difficult for one single player to get to 7 wonders, even in such a small MP match as 5 players is.

And then, that 21 number seems very unlikely, as on the Tech and Civics trees for the age we saw, which doesn't have black spaces like the exploration one, we got 14 plus two civics we can't see, so even 18 would already be a very optimistic number, it seems.


Well, they could always patch at some point, if needed, changing it to something like building 21 buildings where a wonder counts as 3, or something on those lines, if the only wonder version end up not working well from players feedback