Jester's Final Prediction Thread

[RedCourtJester]

Even that 21 number already would be tough. A 5 player MP would likely have at least every player build at least 3 from normal play so filling 15, then we would have 3? AI civs being active in the other side of the world probably building a wonder or two, so would already be very difficult for one single player to get to 7 wonders, even in such a small MP match as 5 players is.

And then, that 21 number seems very unlikely, as on the Tech and Civics trees for the age we saw, which doesn't have black spaces like the exploration one, we got 14 plus two civics we can't see, so even 18 would already be a very optimistic number, it seems.


Well, they could always patch at some point, if needed, changing it to something like building 21 buildings where a wonder counts as 3, or something on those lines, if the only wonder version end up not working well from players feedback

We have the antiquity civics tree?

I'm looking at the screenshot for tech antiquity and I only see four confirmed wonders anyway. Something at writing (Great Stela?), Pyramids in Masonry I, Hanging Gardens in Irrigation I, and Ha'amonga A Maui in Navigation I. I don't think we can see enough to tell, but especially if techs have more than two mastery levels to unlock, that's plenty of room for more wonders.

 

[RedCourtJester]

Also, I am taking back speculation about Ashoka specifically being a persona leader, as a good a choice as he would be. Every leader has a "Title." So every leader could have potential for another persona, we would need to base speculation around something else like Ben's color schemes. Never mind.

 

[Siptah]

We have the antiquity civics tree?

Yes, apart from the last stage. It unlocks 8 wonders in the revealed stages, iirc.

I'm looking at the screenshot for tech antiquity and I only see four confirmed wonders anyway. Something at writing (Great Stela?), Pyramids in Masonry I, Hanging Gardens in Irrigation I, and Ha'amonga A Maui in Navigation I. I don't think we can see enough to tell, but especially if techs have more than two mastery levels to unlock, that's plenty of room for more wonders.

There is also the Pyramid of the Sun is at Mathematics.

 

[Evolena]

We're not talking about the Leader's cards posted on Youtube/Twitter, but about that, in-game : https://forums.civfanatics.com/media/ashoka2-png.7238/full

 

[RedCourtJester]

We're not talking about the Leader's cards posted on Youtube, but about that, in-game :

Ooo we have titles/no titles in game? I missed that.

 

[Evolena]

For reference, Augustus is just Augustus : https://forums.civfanatics.com/media/augustus-png.7239/

 

[RedCourtJester]

For reference, Augustus is just Augustus : https://forums.civfanatics.com/media/augustus-png.7239/

EDIT: OH I see. Sorry had to scroll through the images.

Yeah, I think you are probably right.

 

[Siptah]

But it says "Imperium Maius" above him? Isn't that his title?

Ashoka also has that kind of title above him, if you look closely: Dhammaraja. Yet, he also has his persona (presumably) written out after his name in bold and large type.

 

[Evolena]

The Imperium Maius, or God's Wife of Amun for Hatshepsut, and so on, is the name of their unique ability.
I've been confused too for a while between the unique ability, the titles on the social media cards, and the "surname" unique to Ashoka.

 

[RedCourtJester]

The Imperium Maius, or God's Wife of Amun for Hatshepsut, and so on, is the name of their unique ability.
I've been confused too for a while between the unique ability, the titles on the social media cards, and the "surname" unique to Ashoka.

Yeah yeah it makes total sense now, I agree with you guys, definitely persona evidence.

 

[chaosprophet]

Yes, apart from the last stage. It unlocks 8 wonders in the revealed stages, iirc.

There is also the Pyramid of the Sun is at Mathematics.

Oh yeah, I mistook the first icon on Masonry as another wonder, but it isn't a square, and is actually the walls. I guess walls are considered something a bit different from buildings as they don't use a building slot, but instead can be build as an extra on every urban district.

So thats actually 5 in tech, and 8 in civics plus 2 civics we can't see so probably 13~15 wonders.

 

[AntSou]

This is not a "post modern" Civ. That's as detached from the evidence as some of RedCourtJester's suggestions.

They are not showing a Rome into Aztec pathway as default for some reason.

To me it seems to fit roughly with this:

If I give you 15 Civs per era, what reasonable historical paths can be created while maximizing the cultural diversity available in the game at release?

So we'll neither have extremely linear paths (with some exceptions, maybe), because that reduces diversity, neither will we have a free for all like in Humankind (though randomization could be a game option?). It's a push and pull.

There's also barely any mention of how much of a cash cow civ packs are.

The approach they are taking with Civ VII creates vacuums which can later be filled with more fitting historical alternatives sold as DLC.

By the time Civ VIII rolls around, there will be more historical pathways and leader combos, official or from high quality mods, than time in a life time to play them all.

 

[RedCourtJester]

@Zaarin, halp!

What do you think of Assyria -> Crusader States/Outremer (with vicarious representation of Roman/Greek (via Seleucids) heritage) -> Mamluks, and Babylon -> Artuqid (Mongolian, Arabian, and Turkic (via Seljuks) influence) -> Mamluks?

Krak des Chevaliers and Great Mosque of Silvan?

I think that makes for a fantastic expac. Also, I claim those as predictions for exploration era wonders.

 

[dagriggstar]

Plus I do not believe that Teotihuacan, Nalanda, Mausoleum of Theodoric, Emile Bell, Dur-Sharruken, Hanging Gardens, or the Colossus will launch with an associated civ.

I’d argue the mausoleum of Theodoric and Emile Bell are too niche to be picked without an associated Civilization. Dur-Sharruken for me is 50/50. I’d say Goths/Silla/Assyria are more likely than Norse/Mississippi/Wagadu. All three I’d say are not from regions lacking wonder representation.

The hanging gardens despite being strongly associated with Babylon has been a classic civ wonder so that’s my reasoning for not including Babylon. Petra and the Colossus fall into a similar category but with more unlikely associated civilisations.

Teotihuacan I just don’t think there will be enough information for them to feel comfortable basing a Civilization around.

I think Songhai is just going to be janky on launch. Shawnee as DLC to be a little wonky too. Both to have Mongolia style goal progressions to make up for lack of preceding choices.

 

[Zaarin]

Assyria -> Crusader States/Outremer (with vicarious representation of Roman/Greek (via Seleucids) heritage) -> Mamluks

I don't hate it. Seems like a shame to have the Crusader States without Melisende, though.

Petra and the Colossus fall into a similar category but with more unlikely associated civilisations.

Nabataea seems unlikely on release but would be a cool civ for the future.

 

[RedCourtJester]

I’d argue the mausoleum of Theodoric and Emile Bell are too niche to be picked without an associated Civilization. Dur-Sharruken for me is 50/50. I’d say Goths/Silla/Assyria are more likely than Norse/Mississippi/Wagadu. All three I’d say are not from regions lacking wonder representation.

The hanging gardens despite being strongly associated with Babylon has been a classic civ wonder so that’s my reasoning for not including Babylon. Petra and the Colossus fall into a similar category but with more unlikely associated civilisations.

Teotihuacan I just don’t think there will be enough information for them to feel comfortable basing a Civilization around.

I think Songhai is just going to be janky on launch. Shawnee as DLC to be a little wonky too. Both to have Mongolia style goal progressions to make up for lack of preceding choices.

They absolutely are niche, I would argue Nalanda is as well if we are ever going to expect a second Indian leader down the line. And I just, just realized in another thread that Teotihuacan might actually be coming, much further down the pipeline. I think most of the unassociated civs at launch were selected to prepare for civ additions down the line, that just makes a lot of economical sense, especially when we consider logical additions to regions. But that does not mean that they all will have civs at launch.

Hence, Emile Bell really doesn't need to demand Silla in base game. It could be a set-up wonder.

We don't even really know if Majapahit is the confirmed Khmer preference for exploration. That could also be a placeholder and we are getting Burma. I'm dubious of that, because we didn't get a Funan leader in antiquity and I think Rama better represents the idea of modern Bangkok's mandala influence over all of SEA, but it's still possible given what we know.

I don't hate it. Seems like a shame to have the Crusader States without Melisende, though.

Woah, WOAH. Maybe she is our Zenobia, our Ashurbanipal, for that civ path. I wouldn't mind her at all. I was struggling to think of non-antiquity leaders for the Assyrian and Babylonian paths. Good recommend!

 

[Zaarin]

Woah, WOAH. Maybe she is our Zenobia, our Ashurbanipal, for that civ path. I wouldn't mind her at all. I was struggling to think of non-antiquity leaders for the Assyrian and Babylonian paths. Good recommend!

I wrote a paper on her in college. She's a little more obscure than, say, Wu Zetian or Catherine de' Medici, but she was an absolute powerhouse in the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

 

[RedCourtJester]

I wrote a paper on her in college. She's a little more obscure than, say, Wu Zetian or Catherine de' Medici, but she was an absolute powerhouse in the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

I would love her. But watch, it'll be Baldwin IV lol.

And the return of Gilgamesh, LOL.

(I hope not, I think we can do much better. Plus, female leaders of any sort get a bit of a leg up in opportunities so I think her odds are good.)

 

[Zaarin]

I would love her. But watch, it'll be Baldwin IV lol.

And the return of Gilgamesh, LOL.

(I hope not, I think we can do much better. Plus, female leaders of any sort get a bit of a leg up in opportunities so I think her odds are good.)

I'd be a little surprised. She's pretty obscure; I only know she exists because I took a class on the Crusades. While her story has "period drama" written all over it, I don't think anyone's done one on her like the dozens of period dramas on Wu Zetian, for instance.

 

[sTAPler27]

We really need more American civs. Like in previous civs it was disappointing but in a game where you're expected to evolve your culture South American civs are going to be starved for options for a while. Hope we get something like Humankind's region oriented culture packs.