JFC-2: Genghis Pope

[AnotherPacifist]

So I pm'd mitchifer and since he didn't answer me, I took the 1495-1545 turns.

1. 1500 Persia cancelled Silk/cotton trade. Fine by me. Caravel sent from Fuzhou SE (we haven't met the American civs yet, and circumnavigation should be done soon).

2. 1505 I found we had a great general in Guiyang. Well, I don't know about you guys, but I find that settling great generals gives much more benefit eventually, so I sent him north to Khanbaliq. Also sent our spare keshiks and 1 crossbowman westward. India was SOOOOO obliging as to build the Silk Road for us (he sent us 3 Hindu missionaries already)
Started barracks and gers in multiple northern cities.

3: 1510 Got 80 gold free from Greece. I also traded PP for gunpowder from them.


Wait, I didn't lose my mind. See below.

4. 1515 Greece collapses. So basically we got gunpowder and 80 bucks for free. The unfortunate thing is that I see some German musketmen and curassiers (oh no, Germany has MT) heading towards Apollonia and Byzantium.
Willem asked me again for vassalage. No way. (BTW, in the future we should bank on vassalizing large countries like Russia and even America, since they will help us with the votes much more than small countries, and it's hard to get spontaneous vassals after 2 or 3).
Otto asks us to stop trade with Russia: not right now, since we want to cultivate Russia.

5. 1520 Traded music+ map (a very good map showing all of Africa, Surya must have found his buddy Mansa Musa) + 10 gold from Khmer with guilds. Gave them gunpowder and asked them to research MT for us while we win the liberalism race.

6. 1525 Education done. Liberalism in 6-7 turns...but JAPAN DECLARES WAR!
No matter, we will build experience crushing their little samurai and catapults, not to mention they don't even have optics yet.

7. 1530 Japan lands troops next to Fuzhou and sends an unprotected catapult near Shenyang. A measly samurai and 3 catapults. I kill their trireme with my caravel.

8. 1535 Killed catapult near Shenyang. Killed samurai and 2 catapults near Fuzhou. Got great general which I settled in Khanbaliq (1 turn from building cannon!)
Met Incans, gave them aesthetics, got them pleased with us and open borders. Asked for 20 gold and map for free, and we have finished circumnavigation!

9. 1540 Baotou gets Confuzed by me. (need to get that 60-70% research rate up somehow) Killed the last catapult near Fuzhou.
World map sold to multiple countries for a total of 560 gold (and got some pleased civs in the meantime: France, Ragnar, Russia, Portugal; Turkey and Arabia are now cautious with us).
BTW, we should keep exploring and selling map whenever we can, this is a great way to build relationships and get gold. Fuzhou should build one more caravel soon (both for the war and exploration).

10. 1545 Killed a stray Japanese galley. Sold map to Germany and India (again) for 250 bucks. Met Aztecs and gave them alphabet (4+ relationship but still cautious. He's a greedy bastard, that Monty).
Some of our keshiks have reached independent Byzantium and it's defended by a lone cannon! (I don't know why Germany is sitting 2 troops out there and not capturing it.) I see a pikeman in Apollonia so may not be a good idea until our cannons (sent 2 of them west) get there.
3 turns to liberalism with plenty of cash.
Persia is researching MT, so either we get that from Khmer or them (still have 3 spies there).

Next steps:
1. Raze some Japanese cities after building some galleys
2. Get Constitution from liberalism
3. Switch to representation and free religion soon (Fuzhou needs a little more happiness--it's been angry for too long and I'm afraid for losing improvements around it)
4. More troops to be sent west.
5. ?1 more city between Ning-hsia and Ulaan-Ude (there's an unused iron there)
4.

 

[Jet]

Looks like a good turnset, AP.

Some alternative options -
* Replaceable instead of Constitution for faster Riflemen
* switch to Free Religion but stay in HR and switch to Free Speech, for stability and culture help in Europe
* settle 2NW of the Iron to get the Cows rather than the Iron, for food (but it's very close, 3F2H vs 1F4H.. hmm)
* Byzantium looks like it's under cultural pressure from the surrounding cities. We can consider razing or ignoring it rather than keeping it. A potential problem with razing it, though, would be if Turkish culture expands into that area and they end up settling a different, potentially more annoying city. I've had that happen.
* I'm not sure if we need Japan, or if it's worth all the hammers to overcome City Garrison everything, but maybe if we can get our UP to work...

Roster:

AnotherPacifist - played, swapped with Jet
Umarth - up
Legendre - on deck
Jet - swapped with AnotherPacifist
Mitchifier
Jet - back to normal
Umarth
etc

 

[AnotherPacifist]

* Replaceable instead of Constitution for faster Riflemen
I don't remember if RP is more expensive than constitution, but that's a good alternative. Nobody's even close to Constitution for now, so that's OK.
* switch to Free Religion but stay in HR and switch to Free Speech, for stability and culture help in Europe

That's actually really good, since bureaucracy after liberalism is bad for stability. I still think eventually after constitution we should go representation and maybe viceroyalty to counterbalance the instability from getting a large empire, or get democracy and go representation/emancipation

Japan should be a fertile ground for razing small cities (I think a golden age is in order for quicker science). I want to keep Tokyo though (great production city for wonders while the mainland cities can concentrate on building troops).

I don't remember if Byzantion has certain wonders, I wouldn't raze it automatically until you check it once it's conquered.

 

[Úmarth]

I'm afraid I can't say it went well guys. I feel like one of those obscure leaders in the middle of dynasties

1550 - Surya cancelled the deal we had with him (lots of resources for horse). I had him give us all his resources in tribute.
I scouted out Kisi (Japan's mainland city), it's quite well defended. Best to mount a marine invasion of Japan and collapse them, I think.
Razed Byzantion before the Germans captured it.

1555 - Disaster! Somebody else got Liberalism one turn before us! I don't think there's anything I could have done about it. I scouted out Greece and it does not look good:
Laibach is a behemoth, +100% w/ no less than 2 musketmen, 4 cuirassiers, 7 cannon, 3 macemen, 2 Pikemen, 2 Longbowmen and a crossbowmen. We will need a large army to take it and thus having Greece is definitely a must. Unfortunetely...
Apollonia blocks the way to Athens. It's a capital city with +100%, 2 longbowmen - one with +70% city defense, a Great General pikeman with +10% strength and leadership and a phalanx with +20% strength. So there's no chance of taking it with the keshik we have there. I razed all the improvements I could and started sending cannon that way.

1560 - Started researching Replaceable Parts the hard way. Started on some keshiks to attack Japan with.

1570 - Started a worker extending the silk road through Russia to Greece.

1575- nothing to report.

1580 - Great Artist born in Fuzhou. Sent it to our capital.

1585 - started a settler in Ning-hsia to get that cow since it's not good for much else. I can't make up my mind what to do with the GA so I slept it.

1590 -The Japanese crossed our borders from Kisi with 2 pikes, a catapult and a trebuchet. Started a Maceman in Shenyang to be safe.

1595- Got RP. Started on Constitution.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I think it was partly my fault, having taken some money out to upgrade a catapult to a cannon (instead of building caravels maybe I should have invested in some modern equipment). I still have the saves after we sold our map, maybe we can push the science up to 100% temporarily to beat ENGLAND (the most likely culprit!!) in the liberalism race? Umarth are you willing to play your turns again?

I would send that GA to Ning-hsia just to get lots of territory so that Russia doesn't encroach on our turf.

BTW what wonders were in Byzantion before you razed it?

 

[Úmarth]

My vote would go for continuing. I've always thought reloading saves was a little cheap, and this isn't the end of the world. Games are boring when they always go your way, imo.

Byzantion didn't have any wonders. I considered what Jet said about Turkish cities but my reasoning was we can't afford dead-weight cities in Europe from either a financial or stability standpoint and I didn't want Germany or Turkey to get a foothold in Greece before us.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

OK. (I just replayed it and I could get to liberalism in 2 instead of 3 moves when I end in 1545, so it can be interesting when 2 civs discover liberalism the same turn who gets it first).
I'll be gone tomorrow for 1 week, but I'll keep reading up online, keep me posted.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

In case others vote for getting liberalism (I went back and set some cities to research and 100% research rate), here's a save where I got RP for the free tech, sold some more maps and razed Byzantion (got a worker). Also switched to free religion and free speech and started researching for constitution (go ahead and switch to rifling if you want). There's also the option of declaring peace with Japan but why would we do that?
(Legendre you're up, choose wisely. hint hint)

 

[Jet]

I decree that we will play on from the original non-Liberalism save.

Interesting to see we could have gotten it though.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I decree that we will play on from the original non-Liberalism save.

Interesting to see we could have gotten it though.

Hence my preference for representation and yours for HR.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Byzantion actually could have been a great city for resting our troops (and also for them not costing money while away). Since we have free religion/free speech soon it would grow in size quickly. It would limit Turkey's expansion. It also has Christianity (and we need some missionaries sent to China soon).
If Turkey decides to found Istanbul (just slightly north there's no independent influence), its culture would expand really rapidly and put it in reach of Athens, and closing access to it (or at least make the trip much longer). Razing it may not have been such a good idea...

 

[Jet]

Hence my preference for representation and yours for HR.

[IMG=left]http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee216/athenai777/king-70-70.jpg[/IMG]
JFC-2 celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day!"
"No no, please. Please."



Of course I'll only dictate play protocol, not in-game choices.

 

[Jet]

Are you in the house, Legendre?

 

[Legendre]

Yo yo yo. Just got home and am loading up civ right now . I'll have my turn posted in an hour.

Edit: game crashed (first time civ has crashed on me!) at 1635 when Ethiopia collapsed. I'll have to backtrack a few turns but almost done.

 

[Legendre]

First Remark: Why does the AI always have to build their cities so close togethor? Apollonia and Athens both have wonders but are retardedly placed . In Japan the war goes annoyingly since our catapults keep on switching between bombarding Kagoshima and Fukuoka. Also, I'm sending our Great Artist toward Europe so that we can do some culture bombage when we get our beachhead there. If you guys want to do something else with him, feel free - it's just an idea. BTW, all of this military being sent towards Europe rocks!

turn 1: 1600 Sold a Rice to Freddy for 3g/turn, Cotton for Gold with Darius, sold Bananas to Louis for 5g/turn, sold horses to Asoka for 5g/turn, Silk to Suleiman for 3g/turn, Opened borders with Monty, and sold our map around for about 100g.

turn 2: 1605 Nothing much to report, sent some more troops to Japan, began bombarding.

turn 3: 1610 Whipped a few buildings, continued the Japanese bombardment.

turn 4: 1615 Sury wouldn't trade Military Tradition to us so I stole it from Darius.

turn 5: 1620 Toku is sending a stack of troops toward Qiqahaer it looks like.

turn 6: 1625 Joao asks us to convert to Buddhism, I say hell no! Finish Constitution, start on Rifling. Swap to Free Religion + Free Speech. Start Taj in Guiyang (has most hammers after Khanbaliq). Get a great prophet in Khanbaliq. This is a tough call now. I was sending our great Artist over to Europe as I said above, but now we could potentially get a golden age. I check and we get 10g from the Taoist shrine so I go for that - it should be good money after we build some more infrastructure in Fuzhou.

turn 7: 1630 Finally reduce the defenses of Kagoshima. First canon makes it to Apollonia! Start bombarding there.

turn 8: 1635 Famine strikes Sury's city of Hue - the people of Fuzhou let them starve! Ethiopia collapses! Crap my game crashed (huge disaster... HUGE!). Sacrifice a cannon and catapult on Kagoshima and finally raze that damn city! Found Sanchu near Ning-Hsia as was desired in previous post.

turn 9: 1640 Persia declares on India! Second cannon makes it to Apollonia! Duke it out with a stack of Toku's units near Qiqahaer.

turn 10: 1645 France captures Amsterdam and Netherlands Collapses. Asoka asks us to declare on Darius, I say no. Reduce Apollonia's defense to 0, it should be ready to capture next turn. Re-reduce Fukuoka's defense to 0 and land 2 new cannons next to it - should be razable next turn. Sell a fur to Freddy for 4g/turn and sell a rice to Catherine for 5g/turn.

One last thing, we have 1 spy still sitting in Seoul. We should be able to steal Astronomy from Darius when he finishes that (hopefully).

 

[Úmarth]

What Wonders do Athen and Apollonia have exactly? Should we raze one of them? Apollonia does cut into Athen's stuff but it's also a good defensive position so we could effectively garrison two cities for the price of one.

 

[Legendre]

Apollonia has at least the Great Library and an Academy and Athens at least the Leaning Tower. This is just from the map visual - I didn't check precisely. BTW Umarth, if you think you're the obscure dynast, that must make me like Caligula! As for garrisoning 2 for the price of one, that is true and efficient so I would be in favor of holding onto both.

 

[Jet]

Got it for today or tomorrow.

 

[Jet]

1 1650 raze Fukuoka. He gets 4 partisan Samurai. Won't cap. I think our raze count is now at 5, with 2 to go.

2 1660 take Apollonia at the loss of one Cannon. The GG Pikeman is so injured that when our unpromoted HA gets only 1 XP for killing him. It has the Great Library, 1 settled great scientist, and an Academy. Kept its Lighthouse. Culture bomb it, but the bomb works very strangely and doesn't take effect right away.

4 1670 Rifling in. Started Democracy for Statue of Liberty.

Japan has three visibile Caravels to our one. He doesn't have OB with Persia, so I can hide our Caravel/Galley/Galley stack in Seoul. But we will need more ships if we want to take Kyoto and Tokyo. For now I would suggest taking Kisi (on the mainland) while building more boats. Our initial invasion force is holed up on the forest hill tile in southern Japan.

5 1675 Steal Astro from Persia. EPs on Persia are down to 687, low to steal another tech, so I switch 100% allocation to Germany. If we get another Great Spy we could still use it on Persia for more stealing.

Set the Khmer on Military Science. Don't know if we'll be able to get in trade, but maybe.

6 1680 GONG! We finish the Taj Mahal.

Take Athens with no losses. It has the Moai (destroyed), Colossus, Angkor Wat, Sistine, Leaning Tower, 1 settled GG, 2 Merchants, 3 Prophets. Kept its Lighthouse. Nice.

8 1690 The Japanese stack outside Qiqihaer impales itself on our Riflemen and I advance on Kisi.

10 1700 Asoka is Friendly (even though he's not running his favorite Free Religion and we are) but I must decline his request to invade Persia. We need to walk units through there. Sorry, Asoka.

Democracy in. Set research to Nationalism so that we can switch to Occupation while we capture Japanese and German cities. I don't know, though.

Start the Statue of Liberty.

-------------

I didn't build any buildings, only workers and military. I'm not anti-building, but I thought it would be better to finish Japan promptly rather than let it wait, and we're doing fine against the AIs in research.

I sent the first units toward Greece, and the rest toward Kisi. We need more boats, but we only have one port.

A Cavalry with a GG is on its way to Greece. I didn't attach it, but I think a Medic III is called for, for when we invade Germany.

I found that in 10 turns I couldn't do much to specialize our cities. We'll have to talk about it. Maybe something like:
Production: Ulan-Ude (Triumphal Arch), Khanbaliq (Colosseum), Guiyang (hills)
Specialists: Fuzhou (food, shrine), Shenyang (low health, but it will get a Corn on the empty grass tile soon).
Hybrid Production/Commerce: everything else

Screenshot and inspirational music to keep our eyes on the prize:

not a Rickroll, I promise

Roster

Jet - played, swapped with AnotherPacifist
Mitchifier - up, please rejoin us
Jet - on deck, back to normal
Umarth
etc

 

[Úmarth]

I don't know about everyone else but I'm feeling inspired.