Joan d'Arc or Napoleon?

[Jimjam Jones]

I'm not sexist or anything, but I was rather surprised to find Joan of Arc leading the French in Civ3!
Okay, okay, it's true that she was a very important character in the history of France, but she never actually was France's premier in real life, despite leading French armies against the English in the Hundred Years' War.
Wouldn't it make more sense to replace Joan with the great Napoleon? A lot of people would agree that he was France's greatest leader ever, and arguably the most successful Imperialist the world has ever seen
If it wasn't for Napoleon, France would never have acquired its famous empire, and it wouldn't have become such a large power in the 19th century. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this, or ideas about other leaders?

 

[itsa95thing]

I think joan and Napoleon were both great in thier own rights so it doesent bother me either way altough im not of french desent so I wouldent have a strong oppinion either way. but I would have to say i'd rather have william wallace as a leader of scotland than bruce the great.

 

[Supercilious]

Joan is a stupid choce as she never was the leader of France.

It likely was a pitiful attempt by the game company to be Politically Correct and create a female leader. They were also PC making Cleopatra appear "black" (she wasn't).

The French leader should have been Napoleon, Charlemagne, Charles deGaulle, or even Louis XIV.

 

[AugustoD]

maybe they did it to have more females leaders in the game, but there is no doubt that france=napoleon

 

[EdmundSpenser]

Joan rules and dont u forget it

ed

 

[Ren]

Napolean was actually a leader of Frence, Joan Of Arc wasn't.

Sorry if someone else has already said this, I didn't read all the posts.

 

[loki]

Actually, back in CIV 1, Napoleon was the french leader.

loki

 

[Mr Spice]

I sort of like Joan and would not want to trade her for some scruffy-looking Napoleon.

 

[loki]

Not to mention Joan looks pretty hot in her napoleonian outfit (industrial age)

loki

 

[Clubber]

I would like to see the hero of the Battle of Cameron, Jean D'anjou of the French Foreign Legion, immortalized as the leader of France in Civ III.

 

[Shaitan]

I agree that Jean was most likely picked just to give another female choice for leader. She was a rallying point for the French armies but she was not a leader of the country by any stretch of the imagination. Karl der Grosse would be a great choice.

itsa95thing - I'm a Wallace fan too, but he wasn't a leader of Scotland any more than Jean d'Arc was a leader of France. Kenneth MacAlpin is probably the best choice for a Scottish leader. He united the Dal Riadan Scotti and the Caledonian Picts and mobilized them to fight off the viking invaders. He then made treat with the vikings and used THEM to fight off the Britons. His reign was the only one in Scotland where religious freedom was allowed. He was an inspired leader, a forward thinker and an exemplary general.

(Sorry that this has strayed off the thread topic)

 

[PanaGo]

With no question,Napoleon! But the programmers wanted to equalize the male/female in leaders. And since there was recently a blockbuster with Joan D'Arc, they chose her. My guess is that if there was a re-release of a remastered edition of "Waterloo" they wouldn't even think not to put Napoleon as a leader of the French. It would be easier to replace Shaka with a woman-Zulu than Napoleon...However, in Civ 4 there HAS to be 2 leaders per nation. One male,one female...

 

[bombtrack]

Napoleon should definitely be the leader of the French, hands down.
One thing that would also be pretty good is to bring back the advisors in the background like in Civ 1. With their expressions reflecting their leader's.

PANAGO: I agree completely with having a leader of either sex for each culture. Although we may have some "unheard of"s for some cultures. Like the Greeks for example, being Greek myself the only female leader I can think of was a naval mistress named Bouboulina (and I'm willing to bet many Greeks have never even heard of her!), I'm sure the same can be said about the Japanese, Zulu, Aztec and many other Civs.
Also, why can't we edit our Civ adjectives and titles, like we could in Civ 2? (Yes I know I'm nit-picking)
Anyhow enough rambling, go forth and conquer friends!

 

[Rob in TN]

Although I rather thought that despite being Emperor he was actually Corsican rather than French....

 

[Jimjam Jones]

Yes, Napoleon did come from Corsica, but if you look at a map you'll find that Corsica is part of France, not a separate country.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Jimjam Jones
Yes, Napoleon did come from Corsica, but if you look at a map you'll find that Corsica is part of France, not a separate country.

Today, Corsica is a part of France. However, in Napoleon's youth it was not.

http://www.pbs.org/empires/napoleon/n_myth/youth/page_1.html

 

[Rob in TN]

And according to this

http://library.thinkquest.org/11402/bio_cleopatra.html?tqskip1=1&tqtime=0214

Cleo was Macedonian and had no Egyptian blood.......

 

[cephyn]

Joan of Arc is a horrible choice -- i have few french friends who were actually appalled. They would have preferred Napoleon, but even more so there was a consensus that Louis XIV or Charlemagne, or even De Gaulle would have been far superior choices. I agree, and add Richelieu to the list.

As for Cleo, she's just silly in Civ3. Egypt was in its waning days by the time she was around. If they really wanted a female, a far better choice would have been Ma'at-ka-Ra Hatshepsut, a Female Pharaoh of Egypt.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Rob in TN
And according to this

http://library.thinkquest.org/11402/bio_cleopatra.html?tqskip1=1&tqtime=0214

Cleo was Macedonian and had no Egyptian blood.......

That's right. Cleopatra was the last of the Greek (Macedonian or Ptolemaic) pharoahs. The last Pharaoh actually. She represents an independent Egypt, just as Napoleon represents French national glory, and Joan represents French independence.

 

[Rob in TN]

Doesn't trip off the tongue though does it.....?