acluewithout
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2017
- Messages
- 3,470
I really don’t know how I feel about the past two months.
This update is actually quite substantial. It’s just that a lot of the content is focused on Red Death, and most people are saying “meh, not interested”.
Thing is, Red Death is really fun. And the additional complexity and polish FXS have added really takes it from this sort of in-house random mode, to a real game option. What’s more, stuff like this makes the game richer overall, even if it’s just because it lets developers try stuff out or gets people talking about the game.
Apocalypse Mode is sort of the same thing in a way. Yeah, bit out their for Civ, but that’s sort of good to have in the game. If anything, I think it’s a pity FXS didn’t get a bit more gonzo with Apocalypse Mode. Their Twitter suggests they might add some more disasters, so cross fingers. And hey, Red Death has Zombie Barbarians. So perhaps there’s a chance they could make it into Apocalypse Mode. Soothsayers raising Zombies could be sort of interesting too.
And I also think that, if the game has room for this sort of stuff, having it released early in the season makes sense. Save the more meaty stuff for later. Apocalypse Mode and Red Death sort of fit together conceptually too - end of the world and post end of the world.
...but, yeah. So far, most of the new content really doesn’t address some of the ongoing gameplay issues - population not really being valuable, mid to late game it’s flying by and feeling irrelevant - and the game is still missing sort of key content including stuff from previous games - eg ideology and ideological pressure, units, corporations etc. I’m also a bit disappointed with some of the things that have been tweaked - eg I’m not sure the Religious buff really goes far enough.
But Civ VI is mostly about lots of little systems that add together, and there’s clearly a lot more to get added into NFP. So, I guess it’s all just still wait and see?
For me, I’m probably not going to dive back into the game for another month. I think I’d rather wait for the next DLC and update, to see if that moves the needle a bit more. I’m still mostly hopeful that NFP will end up the expansion Civ VI needed + the necessary patching / balancing / fixing stuff / polish that was lacking. But it’s also clear it’s going to be a long wait for the game to really step up another level.
For the reasons stated above, I really think that’s a bit harsh. It’s good to have stuff like this in the game, if only because it lets the developers try stuff out.
I really disagree. The point of food v housing v amenities is that you have to balance all three to achieve growth. FXS seem to be now stripping out a lot of this complexity, so you basically just get two out of three - sometimes even three out of three - in the same mechanic. This bonus basically just means “auto growth” instead of having to really make things work by leveraging multiple mechanics.
Indeed, this is a really annoying trend I’m seeing with the game’s development. Lots of interesting parts of the game are just getting ditched on the basis it’s too hard or whatever. And there is also just so much “dial everything up to 11” with the yields.
Another example of this from last year was Lumbermills. Yes, they were a bit weak. But the flat +2 came at the cost of losing River adjacencies, meaning they lost a lot of interesting placement mechanics. Allowing Lumbermills on Rainforests also got rid of the tension between the early utility of Rainforests for unimproved yields but late game disadvantage of weak adjacencies and no improvements. See also yields from disasters, which are just getting more and more mental, as are Campus adjacencies. Honestly, adding in reefs for Campuses, plus the existing mountains, jungle, geo thermals, means you can basically just build the things anywhere. They may just as well say Campuses get +1 per adjacent tile and we can all just build +6 Campuses every time.
I mean, okay, some of this isn’t a big deal. And generally FXS do a really great job with balance changes. But FXS really need to be careful, and they really need to start focusing on making the game “tighter” not just buffing stuff. Over the next few patches and DLC, I’d really like to see big populations start having real value but without just pushing plays to make every City huge, I’d really like to see managing empires (including managing gold) get a lot harder, and I’d really, really like to see FXS focus a bit more on playing the map with the various balances changes rather than just buffing buffing buffing yields.
Maybe. I think some people, including me, are just a little impatient. We’ve been waiting for a Third Expansion for ages to address some key areas; then, when we get a Third Expansion, it’s basically being rolled out over twelve months; and then the first two content drops don’t really address core areas of the game that needed work / expansion.
In fairness, I think FXS probably made the right choice starting with some of this more peripheral stuff like disasters and multi-player. And I think the staggered release will result in a better game overall. But it’s going to still be quite few months before the game gets significantly better in ways that some (maybe a lot?) of people are wanting.
I’m not wanting to be harsh. The game is generally in pretty good shape the stuff that’s come out is good, and I’m still happy I bought the NFP upfront because I think more really good stuff is coming. But I am getting a bit fed up waiting for the game to get better in a few key areas. Guess I just need to be patient...
This update is actually quite substantial. It’s just that a lot of the content is focused on Red Death, and most people are saying “meh, not interested”.
Thing is, Red Death is really fun. And the additional complexity and polish FXS have added really takes it from this sort of in-house random mode, to a real game option. What’s more, stuff like this makes the game richer overall, even if it’s just because it lets developers try stuff out or gets people talking about the game.
Apocalypse Mode is sort of the same thing in a way. Yeah, bit out their for Civ, but that’s sort of good to have in the game. If anything, I think it’s a pity FXS didn’t get a bit more gonzo with Apocalypse Mode. Their Twitter suggests they might add some more disasters, so cross fingers. And hey, Red Death has Zombie Barbarians. So perhaps there’s a chance they could make it into Apocalypse Mode. Soothsayers raising Zombies could be sort of interesting too.
And I also think that, if the game has room for this sort of stuff, having it released early in the season makes sense. Save the more meaty stuff for later. Apocalypse Mode and Red Death sort of fit together conceptually too - end of the world and post end of the world.
...but, yeah. So far, most of the new content really doesn’t address some of the ongoing gameplay issues - population not really being valuable, mid to late game it’s flying by and feeling irrelevant - and the game is still missing sort of key content including stuff from previous games - eg ideology and ideological pressure, units, corporations etc. I’m also a bit disappointed with some of the things that have been tweaked - eg I’m not sure the Religious buff really goes far enough.
But Civ VI is mostly about lots of little systems that add together, and there’s clearly a lot more to get added into NFP. So, I guess it’s all just still wait and see?
For me, I’m probably not going to dive back into the game for another month. I think I’d rather wait for the next DLC and update, to see if that moves the needle a bit more. I’m still mostly hopeful that NFP will end up the expansion Civ VI needed + the necessary patching / balancing / fixing stuff / polish that was lacking. But it’s also clear it’s going to be a long wait for the game to really step up another level.
For the reasons stated above, I really think that’s a bit harsh. It’s good to have stuff like this in the game, if only because it lets the developers try stuff out.
I really disagree. The point of food v housing v amenities is that you have to balance all three to achieve growth. FXS seem to be now stripping out a lot of this complexity, so you basically just get two out of three - sometimes even three out of three - in the same mechanic. This bonus basically just means “auto growth” instead of having to really make things work by leveraging multiple mechanics.
Indeed, this is a really annoying trend I’m seeing with the game’s development. Lots of interesting parts of the game are just getting ditched on the basis it’s too hard or whatever. And there is also just so much “dial everything up to 11” with the yields.
Another example of this from last year was Lumbermills. Yes, they were a bit weak. But the flat +2 came at the cost of losing River adjacencies, meaning they lost a lot of interesting placement mechanics. Allowing Lumbermills on Rainforests also got rid of the tension between the early utility of Rainforests for unimproved yields but late game disadvantage of weak adjacencies and no improvements. See also yields from disasters, which are just getting more and more mental, as are Campus adjacencies. Honestly, adding in reefs for Campuses, plus the existing mountains, jungle, geo thermals, means you can basically just build the things anywhere. They may just as well say Campuses get +1 per adjacent tile and we can all just build +6 Campuses every time.
I mean, okay, some of this isn’t a big deal. And generally FXS do a really great job with balance changes. But FXS really need to be careful, and they really need to start focusing on making the game “tighter” not just buffing stuff. Over the next few patches and DLC, I’d really like to see big populations start having real value but without just pushing plays to make every City huge, I’d really like to see managing empires (including managing gold) get a lot harder, and I’d really, really like to see FXS focus a bit more on playing the map with the various balances changes rather than just buffing buffing buffing yields.
Reading the patch notes and by looking at the reaction of people here, I think we are a bit hard to please.
Maybe. I think some people, including me, are just a little impatient. We’ve been waiting for a Third Expansion for ages to address some key areas; then, when we get a Third Expansion, it’s basically being rolled out over twelve months; and then the first two content drops don’t really address core areas of the game that needed work / expansion.
In fairness, I think FXS probably made the right choice starting with some of this more peripheral stuff like disasters and multi-player. And I think the staggered release will result in a better game overall. But it’s going to still be quite few months before the game gets significantly better in ways that some (maybe a lot?) of people are wanting.
I’m not wanting to be harsh. The game is generally in pretty good shape the stuff that’s come out is good, and I’m still happy I bought the NFP upfront because I think more really good stuff is coming. But I am getting a bit fed up waiting for the game to get better in a few key areas. Guess I just need to be patient...
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