June 2020 Update - Patch Notes Discussion

[criZp]

inconsequential update that overwrites all the custom changes I've made to the files.

Annoying

You're supposed to put your changes into mod files, not in the original files.

 

[monikernemo]

force update and change useless things from +4 gold to +5 gold is not good practice.

They need to fix the important problems like useless AI.

Its difficult to code, or even theoretically impossible, a competent AI given complicated the game is. Afterall, if you can write some instructions on how to play the game well, then the game shouldn't be challenging to us as human beings. Given sufficient compute it's possible to train a AI that plays decently without additional bonuses.

 

[lz14]

Its difficult to code, or even theoretically impossible, a competent AI given complicated the game is. Afterall, if you can write some instructions on how to play the game well, then the game shouldn't be challenging to us as human beings. Given sufficient compute it's possible to train a AI that plays decently without additional bonuses.

Panzer general, a game made over 25 years ago with 10mb in size has better unit combat than civ6. I can't kill 20 AI units with 2 archers and a warrior.
Making AI "smart" is hard of course but AI doesn't have to be "smart" to make the gaming experience better.

 

[monikernemo]

Panzer general, a game made over 25 years ago with 10mb in size has better unit combat than civ6. Its ranged units are not op broken like civ6, I don't kill 20 AI units with 3 archers.
AI doesn't have to be "smart" to make the game better.

Yea sure, there is no denying combat is one aspect. I don't know how Panzer General plays, but certainly I still don't think it's that easy to come up with an algorithm that improves AI combat tactics.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

Panzer general, a game made over 25 years ago with 10mb in size has better unit combat than civ6. I can't kill 20 AI units with 2 archers and a warrior.
Making AI "smart" is hard of course but AI doesn't have to be "smart" to make the gaming experience better.

Have you played the game since the Maya&Colombia patch?
A lot of players realized that the AI is way better now. Maybe not agressively, but it knows now how to defend itself.
So, yeah, the AI is improved, bit by bit, because it's complicated. And it became worthy of battle now.
Comparing previous games with civ 6 is utterly wrong and show you're of bad spirit. In previous civ games, the strategy was simple: creating a lot of units, stacking them in the so called stacks of doom, and moving them towards the enemy city. Nowadays, with the no-stacking, it requires more strategy. What they're doing. But if you cared about playing the game you would have noticed that.
It seems that a lot of people continue bashing the game while not playing it anymore and not seeing how things have been improved. I'm not saying it's perfect, I'm not saying it's done, but we have the proof that they work on it.

So, yeah, you're a little bratty because I know a lot of people changing their files and doing modding but you're the first complaining in such an entitled way.

Also, we know that there'll be a patch every month during a year now. So better learn how to mod properly rather than having to change your files every month or you'll complain about something planned in advance.

 

[lz14]

Yea sure, there is no denying combat is one aspect. I don't know how Panzer General plays, but certainly I still don't think it's that easy to come up with an algorithm that improves AI combat tactics.

You know, hex turn based war games were there since the beginning of time. There's got be a ton of those out there with all kinds of systems. I only played pg.
You gotta say as important as war is in a civ game, civ5/civ6 is not doing a great job there.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Yea sure, there is no denying combat is one aspect. I don't know how Panzer General plays, but certainly I still don't think it's that easy to come up with an algorithm that improves AI combat tactics.

Without a doubt, anything "chess-like" with taking in account enemy movements in the future is hard. The bad (or good) news is however that Civ6 AIs would already profit a lot from fixing plunders, where they willingly sacrifice civil or military units by just moving them into range on enemy units they clearly know of:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...it-ignore-visible-threats-on-high-sea.658874/

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/1-0-1-501-ai-sacrificing-worker.658381/

 

[trev1972]

Have you played the game since the Maya&Colombia patch?
A lot of players realized that the AI is way better now. Maybe not agressively, but it knows now how to defend itself.
So, yeah, the AI is improved, bit by bit, because it's complicated. And it became worthy of battle now.
Comparing previous games with civ 6 is utterly wrong and show you're of bad spirit. In previous civ games, the strategy was simple: creating a lot of units, stacking them in the so called stacks of doom, and moving them towards the enemy city. Nowadays, with the no-stacking, it requires more strategy. What they're doing. But if you cared about playing the game you would have noticed that.
It seems that a lot of people continue bashing the game while not playing it anymore and not seeing how things have been improved. I'm not saying it's perfect, I'm not saying it's done, but we have the proof that they work on it.

So, yeah, you're a little bratty because I know a lot of people changing their files and doing modding but you're the first complaining in such an entitled way.

Also, we know that there'll be a patch every month during a year now. So better learn how to mod properly rather than having to change your files every month or you'll complain about something planned in advance.

I love the game, and dont personally think calling people fanboys etc is helpful. And i am hugely appreciative of the modding community.
But- i have played recently since the patch and i still think the AI is awful.

Not just in combat, but in daft things they do!

For example- i still see scythia in the industrial age with hordes of ancient horse units, presumeably they cant afford to upgrade them, but deleting is a step too far.

If they put say a farm down, and then a resourse like niter is found, they just leave the farm - the AI seems to struggle with the concept of changing the improvement.

They seem tied to their agendas and unable to adjust to victory goals, example - i am heading off to space, the world is peaceful (all allied to ne) and shaka? busy building endless armies/corps to the point his lands is choked with tmem

Dont get me wrong, i play the game lots, but do think AI needs some work.

 

[lz14]

Have you played the game since the Maya&Colombia patch?
A lot of players realized that the AI is way better now. Maybe not agressively, but it knows now how to defend itself.
So, yeah, the AI is improved, bit by bit, because it's complicated. And it became worthy of battle now.
Comparing previous games with civ 6 is utterly wrong and show you're of bad spirit. In previous civ games, the strategy was simple: creating a lot of units, stacking them in the so called stacks of doom, and moving them towards the enemy city. Nowadays, with the no-stacking, it requires more strategy. What they're doing. But if you cared about playing the game you would have noticed that.
It seems that a lot of people continue bashing the game while not playing it anymore and not seeing how things have been improved. I'm not saying it's perfect, I'm not saying it's done, but we have the proof that they work on it.

So, yeah, you're a little bratty because I know a lot of people changing their files and doing modding but you're the first complaining in such an entitled way.

Also, we know that there'll be a patch every month during a year now. So better learn how to mod properly rather than having to change your files every month or you'll complain about something planned in advance.

It's annoying that it's a force update with red death or whatever being very optional content.

I can't launch game without updating it. Then I read the patch notes and it doesn't seem to be anything I care so I clicked update. Then It's super annoying there are many "UNDOCUMENTED"changes. e.g. resource.xml is overwritten. Does anyone have any clue what's changed ? It's sure not in the patch notes.

 

[Sostratus]

Still. Lumbermill etc Production Buffs, Volcano and other Disaster Yields, and now Work Ethic. It really does feel like there are a LOT more hammers and coins in the game now.

When they added the electrical power mechanic we suddenly had way more production than before.
I mean you used to get a meager 9 hammers from all 3 IZ buildings. Yes, the game launched with stacking factories, and certain costs around t3 buildings, late game district costs, and the last couple unit tiers, all got impacted by the cutting of aura stacking, but production used to be quite difficult to come by.

Housing too- I recall in vanilla when all your cities would hit like 13 pop and have no more housing. (Assuming you threw down farms.) there was no more available until neighborhoods, making them a crucial unlock. Rise and fall added governors, the plaza, and reworked governments such that you don’t need neighborhoods anymore.

I also think alliances added a TON of power to the game that didn’t exist before either. Those green cards boosting ally trade routes are insane, not to mention the alliance effect itself.

 

[Deggial]

Panzer general, a game made over 25 years ago with 10mb in size has better unit combat than civ6. I can't kill 20 AI units with 2 archers and a warrior.
Making AI "smart" is hard of course but AI doesn't have to be "smart" to make the gaming experience better.

I am the last person to defend Civ6’s AI (it got better with every patch, though! Still room for optimization), comparing it with ‘Panzer General’ is a bit unfair.

In PG, you basically played pre-set scenarios. Most of the enemies (with the exception of replacement units) were already placed in their position and the player had to overcome the defense in order achieve victory in a certain amount of turns (the fewer the better). The game didn’t have or need any kind of high-level strategic AI nor any sort of city management.

It was a great and fun game, but the AI was way simpler than anything Civ6 has to deal with. What it had to do, it did quite well, though.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

Then It's super annoying there are many "UNDOCUMENTED"changes. e.g. resource.xml is overwritten. Does anyone have any clue what's changed ?

They changed resource.xml, policy.xml for example.

*edit* I checked both Resources.xml & Policies.xml (you had filenames wrong in the 2nd quoted text), & neither one was updated this month so not sure what you're talking about.

 

[lz14]

I am the last person to defend Civ6’s AI (it got better with every patch, though! Still room for optimization), comparing it with ‘Panzer General’ is a bit unfair.

In PG, you basically played pre-set scenarios. Most of the enemies (with the exception of replacement units) were already placed in their position and the player had to overcome the defense in order achieve victory in a certain amount of turns (the fewer the better). The game didn’t have or need any kind of high-level strategic AI nor any sort of city management.

It was a great and fun game, but the AI was way simpler than anything Civ6 has to deal with. What it had to do, it did quite well, though.

All I'm saying is if civ6 copied pg 100% it's combat would be x100 better than it is now do you not agree ?
If civ6 AI purchase units and put them in a pre-set position around cities ( like pg) would it not look x100 smarter than it is now ?

 

[lz14]

*edit* I checked both Resources.xml & Policies.xml (you had filenames wrong in the 2nd quoted text), & neither one was updated this month so not sure what you're talking about.

Well I don't know if the content is changed at all but after I updated the files got overwritten. Is that not the same for you ?

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

I don't want to defend AI in Civilization VI but if someone claims it's a few hours of work with XML in such complex game as Civ just means that he doesn't have any idea what balancing the game really means...
Every single balance needs testing because improving one single element can ruin others... testing a game it's hours of play. It does not mean not to do it, but it just means we should not get things simplified.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

Well after I updated it they got overwritten. Is that not the same for you ?

No, and I back up all my game files before every update. So not only did I check the modified date for the files in Win Xplorer, but also ran a comparison check of the two files from before and after this last update. Just looking at the Vanilla game files and only three were actually updated - BehaviorTrees, GameCapabilities, & Modifiers. Also, a word of caution, directly modifying your game files is just a recipe for disaster in the long term - make your changes in a mod and you'll save yourself a ton of headaches.

 

[acluewithout]

snip

Alliances are nuts.

Overall, I feel like the game is in a better place. I don’t really want to undo most of the changes made to date. But it does feel like yields are a bit out of control, and a lot of hard decisions and or careful planning has gone.

I don’t think FXS have over corrected. But I think they need to add back in a bit of nuance to some mechanics and there is definitely something wacky about the overall economy.

 

[Browd]

Moderator Action: infractions issued for trolling and multiple posts deleted and others edited for trolling, responding to trolling, and general incivility. Reminder that calling others “fanboy”, “brat” and similar insults is trolling under our rules. If you are unable to post with a civil tone, you are advised to refrain from posting.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[lz14]

No, and I back up all my game files before every update. So not only did I check the modified date for the files in Win Xplorer, but also ran a comparison check of the two files from before and after this last update. Just looking at the Vanilla game files and only three were actually updated - BehaviorTrees, GameCapabilities, & Modifiers. Also, a word of caution, directly modifying your game files is just a recipe for disaster in the long term - make your changes in a mod and you'll save yourself a ton of headaches.

I see. It seems all the files I changed was over-written.
They must have a system to do this deliberately to ensure the update works.

 

[Browd]

Yes. And putting custom changes in a mod (rather than changing game files directly) also preserves your changes if you ever have to validate the integrity of your game files (or reinstall the game altogether).