[GS] June Update Tier List

[Victoria]

I must admit it’s not a civ I’ve tried yet myself but I’m wondering if it is harder for Prince level players to effectively exploit Hungary’s abilities

put simply, people do not levy. Without that they are a weak Netherlands.
In fact they are weakest at Emperor because that is the level where the AI takes all the CS early and is on the most contention for CS. At prince it is levy after levy
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Lists like this are just mind boggling. I mean Mongols at B, Shaka at A
Pericles is just awesome at both Cultural and science victories.... a mind boggling B
Like all lists one wonders how much is armchair theorising, the game is so different in practice.
Then the start and the map can completely change your view. Victoria 7 seas is not a bad game but pangea her and she is useless. lets not go to difficulty and speed in the mix or even starting bias, Greece has a great starting bias for example.
How can you correctly judge Canadas non DOW ability against other civs?
However they do give some idea of relative strengths IF the first post was changed to reflect peoples views, otherwise its one persons bias view.

 

[Scaramanga]

It is amazing people don't levy more with all the gold spent on city-states in Civ 5.
I would like to try a levy strategy in Vanilla civ 6 with just oligarchy, since the main difference with autocracy is an extra diplomatic card and combat bonuses for all units.

 

[kryat]

It is amazing people don't levy more with all the gold spent on city-states in Civ 5.
I would like to try a levy strategy in Vanilla civ 6 with just oligarchy, since the main difference with autocracy is an extra diplomatic card and combat bonuses for all units.

The problem is that there’s little incentive to levy unless you’re Hungary. The extra troops are nice I guess, but they’re temporary, often at the wrong tech level, an often in the wrong place.

 

[Victoria]

I would like to try a levy strategy in Vanilla civ 6 with just oligarchy

What I have found is levy is not just for fighting. They make for a greater chance at a golden era or in same cases just to avoid a dark.
When you start near a few CS you can find your barb camps get killed nowadays and if you can get an early levy with Amani you can sometimes get +8-9 from the levied troops taking out camps. Combined with the early suze and first levy bonuses you are

The problem is that there’s little incentive to levy unless you’re Hungary.

I disagree, have you read the Levy Units link in my signature for tips and tricks?
One more to add to that list is attack a civ with the levied units and 2 coursers just intent on pillaging. A single gold pillage will pay for the troops, you end up with tonnes of faith and when you get double promotion Coursers which pillage per MP you can get 1K faith in a single turn from a single courser mid game. Without the Levy units they concentrate on your coursers but with levied units they do not.
... also... levied units do not count toward your armies strength so when the AI assesses the value of attacking you they are completely blind to your levied troop count.

 

[kryat]

What I have found is levy is not just for fighting. They make for a greater chance at a golden era or in same cases just to avoid a dark.
When you start near a few CS you can find your barb camps get killed nowadays and if you can get an early levy with Amani you can sometimes get +8-9 from the levied troops taking out camps. Combined with the early suze and first levy bonuses you are

I disagree, have you read the Levy Units link in my signature for tips and tricks?
One more to add to that list is attack a civ with the levied units and 2 coursers just intent on pillaging. A single gold pillage will pay for the troops, you end up with tonnes of faith and when you get double promotion Coursers which pillage per MP you can get 1K faith in a single turn from a single courser mid game. Without the Levy units they concentrate on your coursers but with levied units they do not.
... also... levied units do not count toward your armies strength so when the AI assesses the value of attacking you they are completely blind to your levied troop count.

Fair enough, but those are indirect bonuses for using them in a certain way. There’s less of an incentive to do so if you’re going for peaceful or diplomatic play (except peacekeeping). I feel like there should be some sort of more immediate, tangible reward, other than era score. Maybe if everyone got one envoy for levy, and Hungary gets two (or three even)?

 

[Victoria]

Maybe if everyone got one envoy for levy, and Hungary gets two (or three even)?

Well Hungary get 2 for levying, seems like the sensible option and the is the current, but 1 and 3 may be better so others get benefit if that's what you are saying.
I just find them damn useful... want to fog bust that last area but have only a damaged scout and 80 GB spare... there are opportunities, we just often forget to make the best use of them.

 

[Scaramanga]

What I have found is levy is not just for fighting. They make for a greater chance at a golden era or in same cases just to avoid a dark.
When you start near a few CS you can find your barb camps get killed nowadays and if you can get an early levy with Amani you can sometimes get +8-9 from the levied troops taking out camps. Combined with the early suze and first levy bonuses you are

I'm still on vanilla Switch civ 6 and didn't grasp everything in your reply but your tips page is good.
I think oligarchy is the key to levy especially with the legacy bonus. If you start levying earlier you might have some well promoted mercenaries to draw from. It just makes sense intuitively that autocracy is for one central command and oligarchy is multiple centers.

 

[Archon_Wing]

One civ I’d like to challenge is Hungary, which always seems to be put in the top tier. If you look at the steam achievements win % for the GS civs, Hungary is down the bottom with Dido, clearly behind the likes of Sweden and Canada, which you put much lower down.

Yea, but at the same time, only 30% of accounts have won a game on prince or higher, so I think it's not necessarily an issue of what civ is better, but also preference. I finished a game of Canada not because I thought they were good, but because I wanted to try them out since I was always wondering if Canada would appear in civ.

Some civs can be really good, but also really boring. Some people may quit games if it's too easy.

Your average player is any game is also not very good relative to people who regularly look into mechanics and strategy. It may simply suggest that civs with more complicated mechanics are just not as easy to pick up.

 

[kb27787]

Why do people focus on the super-unreliable levy so much (spend gold, and then lose all your troops because AI drops enough envoys to match your amount)? What part of +50% production to districts AND buildings is weak??? (yes he will suck if he does not spawn next to rivers, but you can easily make the same argument for other civs which rely somewhat on terrain) To me, pearl of the Danube alone is better than all the combined leader and civ abilities of some other weaker civs.

 

[Archon_Wing]

The levy at the very minimum is 2 envoys. It is also really easy to farm era score with and gives you tons of early scouting. If you have 2 CS's that you met first or are just passing through with the mysticism envoy/city quest you can become suz with Amani and levy to maintain suz, and then move to the next CS, rinse and repeat. Even if you lose Suz to other AIs, it's not the end of the world.

And yea the rest is good too.

 

[DWilson]

Isn't it even better, in terms of buying maximum envoys, if you lose suzerainity when moving Amani. In theory you could rinse and repeat every five turns until you surpass any rivals for the city state, so long as you get within Amani's doubling range.

 

[Troy Bruckner]

As Victoria stated using levied troops to go on a pillage rampage is very profitable.

I played Hungary once before they nerfed the free upgrades and it was the most dominant game outside of pillage abuse games I have played. As stated above grab Amani as a gov first then pass her from CS to CS and levy as soon as you get Suzerain and then move her to the next CS.

If levying troops gave all Civs an envoy then Georgia would become uber. Greece even more uber. Greece should be S tier as well btw)

 

[Sostratus]

I am happy to see no one is contesting the rise of Germany with the new IZ changes. They are proof that a civ with some general bonuses to production really can succeed! Even with a crappy UU.

To be fair, general bonuses to production is a bit of an understatement. It's functionally like 30-70% more than regular civs and with the current pace of the mid game it just comes together so fast - Hansa/Guilds/Coal plant each one era apart is an absolute rocket.

I don't think they will ever change the game enough to make Nubia/Aztec/Sumer/Korea not the kingpins, though.

 

[Troy Bruckner]

I am happy to see no one is contesting the rise of Germany with the new IZ changes. They are proof that a civ with some general bonuses to production really can succeed! Even with a crappy UU.

To be fair, general bonuses to production is a bit of an understatement. It's functionally like 30-70% more than regular civs and with the current pace of the mid game it just comes together so fast - Hansa/Guilds/Coal plant each one era apart is an absolute rocket.

I don't think they will ever change the game enough to make Nubia/Aztec/Sumer/Korea not the kingpins, though.

The reason Germany is there is the exact reason Korea should drop down to B. Korea can't produce what it researches to any significant degree. Please do not say Korea has sufficient production because you do so with them in the year 1500 or after. The game is already over by then with the real top tier Civs.

 

[Archon_Wing]

> Hill bias.

> Bad Production

Pick one.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Norway is definitely 1st tier, due to the new pillage system.

 

[lotrmith]

> Hill bias.

> Bad Production

Pick one.

Not just hill bias but mine incentive.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

3 years after release, 2 years after Rise and Fall with numerous changes to pillaging and walls/defense efficiency and there are still people who think Georgia and Norway are bottom tiers. In all honesty, what is the point of this kind of list anyway?

 

[Sostratus]

Not just hill bias but mine incentive.

+1 from mines... and since seowons aren't next to any other districts, that's an extra 0-6 just for improving the land around it.
Put another way, since the seowon comes so early and 1 is worth more than 1, Three Kingdoms more than doubles the value of a mine improvement early game. IE, improving the land around a seowon is worth 6 or more free builder charges early. Talk about an economic boon!

I don't think you can really out research your production capacity- production unlocks are all in the tech tree, and unit upgrades are universally production efficient. As in, you get a unit that is in most cases +10, so you get something that deals 1.5x more damage and takes 1.5x less damage (~2.25x combat effective) but afaik there is no one-era-gap unit upgrade that's 2x the cost of the old unit, except warrior->sword but that's a 16 str difference. You're always coming out ahead. For the argument to be true there would have to be a point in the game where you would turn down being granted free techs by the magical Civ fairy.

 

[iammaxhailme]

One civ I’d like to challenge is Hungary, which always seems to be put in the top tier. If you look at the steam achievements win % for the GS civs, Hungary is down the bottom with Dido, clearly behind the likes of Sweden and Canada, which you put much lower down.

I must admit it’s not a civ I’ve tried yet myself but I’m wondering if it is harder for Prince level players to effectively exploit Hungary’s abilities

Ehh, GS is still relatively new. I wouldn't put too much faith in achievements. Plus I think there are a lot more Swedish and Canadian (in real life) players than Hungarian, who will probably play their own nation first