put simply, people do not levy. Without that they are a weak Netherlands. In fact they are weakest at Emperor because that is the level where the AI takes all the CS early and is on the most contention for CS. At prince it is levy after levy ######### Lists like this are just mind boggling. I mean Mongols at B, Shaka at A Pericles is just awesome at both Cultural and science victories.... a mind boggling B Like all lists one wonders how much is armchair theorising, the game is so different in practice. Then the start and the map can completely change your view. Victoria 7 seas is not a bad game but pangea her and she is useless. lets not go to difficulty and speed in the mix or even starting bias, Greece has a great starting bias for example. How can you correctly judge Canadas non DOW ability against other civs? However they do give some idea of relative strengths IF the first post was changed to reflect peoples views, otherwise its one persons bias view.