Just Got to Say It: I Frickin' Hate Deity

[Helmling]

I don't know why I'm doing this to myself. I've never gone all the way up to deity in any past Civ. (Well, maybe II, but not since then.) Somehow, though, I got in my head that I had to push myself and play Deity.

Not just that, but I had to try to win Deity my way.

What's my way, you ask?

I build.

So tonight I'm putzing around and I pull a nice start. I spend two turns to sneak to the coast. I plant on a hill with nice wheat on flood plains. Silver. Incense. Nothing too remarkable, I think.

I make my usual game-breaking dash for the GL. With some lucky good huts (ruins? what're ruins?) I end up with extra population, an upgraded Hoplite, a culture boost, and a few turns shaved off my research for pottery.

Still, I don't think I've got much chance at GL. This is Deity, after all.

I chop some wood. Cross my fingers. And what do you know, I pull it off. Slingshot to Oracle. Bang! I'm thinking I'm sitting pretty.

Of course, by now my two closest neighbors are invading me with everything they've got. Did I mention I packed a Huge map with 22 civs and 28 city states? Anyway, my hoplite and swarms of archers are able to drive back Egypt and Russia while I expand. Fortunately, I've got my back to a large chunk of territory against the sea, so they're all coming from one direction.

I mean, the desert between me and them must be soaked six feet down with gore the way they keep coming at me. I sell off three of my four horses to Askia just to afford one Companion Cavalry (super cav!) to mop up the War Chariots...but there are so dang many of them.

At one point, Ramses has thirteen units around my capital. Obviously, I'm burning every promotion just to replenish my forces and keeping all my forces around the heartland. Just as I manage to subdue this human tidal wave, I see that Catherine's dispatched her forces against my second city to the south.

That's okay. It's got rough terrain all around and only two tiles from which she can approach. I dispatch my cavalry to back up the city bombardment and figure that will be enough.

But wait, what's this? She's attacking from the sea? Why the heck...um, how'd she do that much damage? A horseman against a city? That's suicide...and yet, she's knocked down half my health bar.

Then it hits me. Guess who's got the Statue of Zues?!?

I mean, seriously. These schmucks have been at war with me for like a thousand years. and THEY JUST KEEP COMING. Seriously, there must not be a single Egyptian family that hasn't lost a son, father, cousin AND scruffy, beloved uncle fighting me.

But I still can't catch a break.

So now I've got a choice. If I lose one of my cities, I can't spare the forces to retake it with this continuous onslaught against my capital. Without its revenue, I'll be bankrupt in a few turns anyway. I can either just accept defeat--even with the GL and Oracle!?! Or I can be a panzy and go back twenty turns and change some decisions to prepare better for this double-whammy invasion.

Okay, thanks...had to vent. Geesh I hate this game. Seriously, I hate it so much. I just wish I didn't love it so much at the same time.

 

[snarzberry]

Awesome rant! 5 stars. I can see you wringing your fists from here.

 

[JeanBaptiste]

Yes there were times I'm sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew
But through it all when there was doubt
I ate it up and spit it out, I faced it all
And I stood tall and did it my way

 

[Horizons]

I don't understand why anybody wants to play at Deity, unless they are trying to prove some kind of point. Unfortunately you don't get points or win a prize for being the best civ player.

 

[Helmling]

Yes there were times I'm sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew
But through it all when there was doubt
I ate it up and spit it out, I faced it all
And I stood tall and did it my way

LOL...I wanted to click the facebook "like" button on that and every other lame Internet cliche meant to affirm, too.

 

[Helmling]

I don't understand why anybody wants to play at Deity, unless they are trying to prove some kind of point. Unfortunately you don't get points or win a prize for being the best civ player.

I think it's just a sort of "if he can do it..." bug that eats at you.

 

[ense7en]

I completely feel ya!

I've moved up to Immortal as part of my gradual progression, and even there, i have some starts that drive me insane.

I do want to move up to Deity to say i can. But i also don't, as i love to build, especially wonders.
And i'm finding that there's less and less freedom to not play in a set way the harder the difficulty.

 

[bukalski]

so what is the prescribed way to play deity? Because pre patch I used research agreements to outpace the AI on a tech basis. Usually reaching future 2 eras ahead of everyone else. I put the game down and just came back few days ago.

Now research agreemants are 50% of your average tech cost which is like 1/3 of what I really want from a tech. So I tried a game...

Earth
started in brazil region

Went hard for jungle/trading post based technology. By the time I get the universities and social options Im so far behind that Im merely able to catch up to them by the time tanks are knocking on my door. Ok so I was able to get to tanks/destroyers/bombers at the same time as them. But they have like 15 cities to my 5 and their cities are at 19 population to my 6-10. Way more money and they smother me anyways. So thats not going to work.

My next idea is to go for war right away. And try to fight my way to the top. Start taking enemy cities right away. Then the cities they built for me will be superior to the ones I could have.

Is domination not a viable approach on Deity? Does someone have a playthrough of how they got domination victory on Deity?

I might be able to pull off a science win easier. But science/culture victory feels like cop out.

 

[spider1]

Playing at the higher levels is not worth the time, effort, and frustration. The AI gets so much free help it's just crazy. All Civ games have had a good medium point for me, a level where I still have to work a bit to win and the game is fun to play. Past the point where the game is fun it becomes useless to me. At that point my time would be better spent watching a movie or reading a book or something.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

so what is the prescribed way to play deity? Because pre patch I used research agreements to outpace the AI on a tech basis. Usually reaching future 2 eras ahead of everyone else. I put the game down and just came back few days ago.

Now research agreemants are 50% of your average tech cost which is like 1/3 of what I really want from a tech. So I tried a game...

Earth
started in brazil region

Went hard for jungle/trading post based technology. By the time I get the universities and social options Im so far behind that Im merely able to catch up to them by the time tanks are knocking on my door. Ok so I was able to get to tanks/destroyers/bombers at the same time as them. But they have like 15 cities to my 5 and their cities are at 19 population to my 6-10. Way more money and they smother me anyways. So thats not going to work.

My next idea is to go for war right away. And try to fight my way to the top. Start taking enemy cities right away. Then the cities they built for me will be superior to the ones I could have.

Is domination not a viable approach on Deity? Does someone have a playthrough of how they got domination victory on Deity?

I might be able to pull off a science win easier. But science/culture victory feels like cop out.

i dont know that there is any 1 prescribed way to beat deity, but there are certainly 3 or 4 'proven' strategies that work more often than not. some of them are pre/post patches. but i think all of them involve conquering a couple cities early. the AI in deity really does prevent a purely pacifist approach (unless you are isolated on a continent/island). Science is still probably the easiest but i dont think it's any more of a copout victory than stealth bombers. pretty much all deity victory LPs show selling OB/lux, RA abuse, and early combat. the rest is just preference and some luck. this is coming from a player who is still struggling pretty hard in deity, but im getting there.

 

[bonafide11]

Playing Deity limits your playstyle way too much, it's really not fun to have to follow a very set formula for winning. I've won on it, but I don't enjoy it...

 

[JeanBaptiste]

Yes, the AI gets crazy amounts of advantages and you have to be very rigid in your play, at least early in the game. Despite this, with some experience, you should be able to win most of deity games however you want to win it. I actually think Deity is not hard enough. The highest level should almost be unbeatable. With a better AI engine that would be the case. I really hope that with G&K we will see this.

 

[Tabarnak]

I have beat Deity several times. But it's not fun. Being stuck behind limited strategies and killing an infinite amount of units is just not fun. It's satisfying the first time you beat deity, but after that you need something more balanced, but still very hard to beat : multiplayer games. That's the true way of play until we face very intelligent AIs.

 

[chazzycat]

yeah beating it once was enough for me. immortal is a pretty good level...challenging enough, yet there is room for error to try different things.

I'm just not big on the idea of civ multiplayer...the relaxed pace is one of the reason I prefer turn based games. Adding a turn timer/simultaneous moves would make it too stressful. If I want high blood pressure I would prefer to play starcraft.

 

[DEO3]

My Deity wins always feel a bit hollow, since all you're really doing at that level is taking advantage of the game's weaknesses - in a very particular way. I'm never left with a feeling of, 'man I'm awesome!', instead I feel like, 'man this sure is a broken game.' I'd rather just play at Emperor and Immortal so I can be free to play in a more fun and flexible way.

 

[blasto]

Aren't there any cheaters like myself out there? I love/hate diety too:

I love the massive numbers of aggresive AI units that swarm you.

I hate the massive gold and happiness handicap that I have to deal with to experience the diety level AI fun.


So, I cheat. Start with a 10k gold or so and some GP's to get yourself off the ground at least. On huge maps the AI is usually already past me even with the GP's at start by the time I meet them. So an advantage like that doesn't even even up the science/gold discrepancy.

This is basically my new difficulty slider... I lower and lower the amount of gold and GP's I give myself based on how well I did the previous game.

 

[bukalski]

I respect multiplayer (starcraft, civ, FPS) players since thats the ultimate experience of the game IMO. Ive got my multiplayer games. Civ5 is one of my relaxed games. Where I can watch tv, interact with family while waiting between turns(my computer is super slow on huge maps)

At the same time that I like a well rounded civ experience sometimes I want to see if I can overcome the huge AI advantages on deity.

 

[snarzberry]

When people say that to win on deity you have to 'abuse the AI' do they mean that you should try to get the most out of RAs, trading, war and diplomacy? Or are they talking about cheat moves like trade and declare, or pillage and re-trade? If by abusing the AI you mean really maxing out your gains from the various systems that you have control over, well I don't see that as abusive, just playing well.

I think the deity experience could be improved but overall I'm fine with it as a level. Superior AI as a bonus instead of bonus happiness, production and such would be better but I guess we're some years away from that. Nevertheless I find it a challenging and rewarding level to play, but to each his own. I'm not sure that I'd agree that I feel pigeon-holed into only a few very narrow strategies. Or perhaps I'm thinking more finer detail and people who have made that comment were thinking more broadly.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

When people say that to win on deity you have to 'abuse the AI' do they mean that you should try to get the most out of RAs, trading, war and diplomacy? Or are they talking about cheat moves like trade and declare, or pillage and re-trade? If by abusing the AI you mean really maxing out your gains from the various systems that you have control over, well I don't see that as abusive, just playing well.

I think the deity experience could be improved but overall I'm fine with it as a level. Superior AI as a bonus instead of bonus happiness, production and such would be better but I guess we're some years away from that. Nevertheless I find it a challenging and rewarding level to play, but to each his own. I'm not sure that I'd agree that I feel pigeon-holed into only a few very narrow strategies. Or perhaps I'm thinking more finer detail and people who have made that comment were thinking more broadly.

when i think about a deity domination strategy i can only think of a couple that are viable in a "it didnt hinge on luck" kind of way. i think the same goes for any vic condition in that the early eras tend to have to be done a certain few ways and changing gears for a different condition is nigh impossible. i havent seen any deity LPs (all the ones ive seen from wainy/maddjinn/tabarnak) that dont follow certain repetitive tactics/strats for the vic. Even Tabarnak's "no writing" game was still a 4-city sword rush. ive also never seen a deity LP of an archipelago dom vic. most of them are always pangaea.

 

[Helmling]

Aren't there any cheaters like myself out there? I love/hate diety too:

I love the massive numbers of aggresive AI units that swarm you.

I hate the massive gold and happiness handicap that I have to deal with to experience the diety level AI fun.


So, I cheat. Start with a 10k gold or so and some GP's to get yourself off the ground at least. On huge maps the AI is usually already past me even with the GP's at start by the time I meet them. So an advantage like that doesn't even even up the science/gold discrepancy.

This is basically my new difficulty slider... I lower and lower the amount of gold and GP's I give myself based on how well I did the previous game.

Wait...what? Are you running some kind of mod or editor or what?