K-mod Deity Fun -- Collaboration of SGOTM teams

[Duckweed]

We don't have much for the worker to do right now, but I guess we will when a worker does come from city #2 (e.g. chopping, roading, improving city #3, #4, etc.

You'll want 3 after having BW, but we can't afford more.

But what do we do with our current worker between now and BW? Finish the farm and then??? I guess move to the plains hill and get ready to chop? Spawn bust in the south and then move to arrive the turn before BW is finished?

Send it to north and then sit on the right position while waiting for BW, it might be able to chop 2~3 forests. Edit: leave the PH forest to the worker from gold city.

I still have to work out the micro for the capital to see if it's possible to get BW a turn sooner without sacrificing too much production (I'm away from the game at the moment to verify it).

Produce settler for a couple turns before growing to 6 and then control the growth by working on 3H tile rather than (clam or cow) until 1 turn before completing BW.

I'm very inexperienced in production calculations, especially pre-Granary so I don't really know. 2 3-pop whips pre-granary seems a bit rough? I couldn't know without testing, and I would screw up the whips anyway

Whipping away non-resource tiles is hammer efficient even without granary in small city as long as the happy cap can support. The major reason why I support BW first is because the threat from Darius' expansion. It's common that deity AI could expand to 6+ cities ~T60.

 

[Folket]

Whipping away non-resource tiles is hammer efficient even without granary in small city as long as the happy cap can support. The major reason why I support BW first is because the threat from Darius' expansion. It's common that deity AI could expand to 6+ cities ~T60.

Not if you can't regrow fast enough. I do not think we have enough food for three pop whips. I think we can go for two pop whips.

 

[pomthom]

Not if you can't regrow fast enough. I do not think we have enough food for three pop whips. I think we can go for two pop whips.

We still have +7 at size 3

 

[Folket]

so size 4 in four turns and size 5 in five more turns and size 6 in an other seven turns.

So we get 90 hammers. loose 52 hammer during the next ten turns and are ready to whip again after 16 turns. That seems to correct.

 

[Mitchum]

Even though whipping without a granary is painful, it's not as painful as slow building settlers to completion or until they have 40+ hammers in them to make them a two-pop whip. Also, you can't just look at the effect of 3-popping settlers in the capital in isolation but you have to consider what having our third city several turns sooner does to our empire as a whole.

I'll work on a more detailed PPP now that it appears that we're all on board with BW as our next tech.

 

[Mitchum]

Here is the plan for the next 10 turns. A few notes:

1. Both Sury and Darius know BW, so we're getting a few bonus flasks for this.

2. We must work the clam resource for the +2C in order to finish BW in 7 turns (actually 8 with one turn of 0% research to save gold).

3. It makes no sense to work a PHFor (+3H) in place of a cow (3F3H) to slow growth as far as I can tell. Instead, we should grow into unhappiness for 2 turns, which essentially makes the cow tile a 1F3H tile which is still better than the 3H PHFor tile. It also gives us some food for a little head-start on re-growing to 4 pops after we 3-pop the settler.

4. Our worker has 5 turns to kill. He really can't do much spawn busting and then get back into position for chopping in time so I'll have him camp out on the PHFor at Beijing-2E for 3 turns while waiting for BW to finish.

 

[soundjata]

I agree with TW>BW>Pottery

Possibly whip a settler at size 6 / 7, then possibly whip TGLH at size 6 / 7 into a granary

Shanghai worker after the archer. This worker will do the Gold road maybe, while worker 1 roads toward city 3?

Almost got my new job in Paris Yay , a few more days waiting for the final answer

 

[Mitchum]

I agree with TW>BW>Pottery

This delays BW by ~6 turns (TW in 5 turns plus an extra turn at 0% research). Does it make sense to delay city #3 by that much? Giving the workers something to do (i.e. build roads) is nice but I'm not sure that delaying our third city that much makes sense...

Possibly whip a settler at size 6 / 7, then possibly whip TGLH at size 6 / 7 into a granary

I try to avoid whipping wonders if at all possible. I'd rather whip a granary into the GLH than the other way around... although it's not possible to 2-pop a granary when Expansive so I'm not sure.

Shanghai worker after the archer. This worker will do the Gold road maybe, while worker 1 roads toward city 3?

Worker #2 will take 12 turns in Shanghai if we start it right now. If we finish the archer first (adds -1C to unit maintenance), the worker won't come out for 14 turns. So if we did go with this approach and we wanted to grow Beijing to 7 pops, we'd need our current worker to buid the gold road.

BTW, depending on where we settle city #3, it may not be connected to our trade network if we go BW -> TW. So if we felt that having city #3 connected to our capital was critical, we'd be forced to settle city #3 on the west/south coast. The pig resource is covered by jungle so that's not a great option. So maybe we'd have to live with no TR connection if we go BW before TW.

Almost got my new job in Paris Yay , a few more days waiting for the final answer

Good luck!!

 

[Duckweed]

Very clear table, a typical OSS/TSR style.

Maybe that you have not noticed that I edited post#161, where I suggested the current worker go directly to north of the capital, precisely 3N1W. Clearing that tile also speeds up the settler traveling. The 3rd city would be a blocking city. Leaving the PH forest to the worker from gold city is also easy for it to come back to road the gold mine.

The rest looks good to me.

 

[Duckweed]

Almost got my new job in Paris Yay , a few more days waiting for the final answer

Good luck to you! You don't like Vietnam and China any more?

 

[Mitchum]

Maybe that you have not noticed that I edited post#161, where I suggested the current worker go directly to north of the capital, precisely 3N1W. Clearing that tile also speeds up the settler traveling.

I'm fine with this. This forest will be within our culture in 2 turns but it will only be +16H instead of +20H. I guess that's fine since a one-turn sooner city #3 can make back some of those "lost" 4H from a non-BFC chop.

The 3rd city would be a blocking city. Leaving the PH forest to the worker from gold city is also easy for it to come back to road the gold mine.

Where do you see city #3 going? Way over by the stone and/or gems to bock off the entire east-west "arm" of the maze? Or somewhere in the middle of the arm by the fish/pigs? If we settle a long way west, we're going to have to move very carefully to avoid barbs and to ensure that none spawn to the north + northwest of Beijing.

 

[Duckweed]

I'm fine with this. This forest will be within our culture in 2 turns but it will only be +16H instead of +20H. I guess that's fine since a one-turn sooner city #3 can make back some of those "lost" 4H from a non-BFC chop.

We are probably going to chop a few forests just to enhance the chance of GLH, so that that forest has to go for GLH.

Where do you see city #3 going? Way over by the stone and/or gems to bock off the entire east-west "arm" of the maze? Or somewhere in the middle of the arm by the fish/pigs? If we settle a long way west, we're going to have to move very carefully to avoid barbs and to ensure that none spawn to the north + northwest of Beijing.

I guess the 3rd city location depends more on Darius' expansion. Moreover, I'm not sure sure how K-mod makes change on AI's expansion. Does the blocking still work? How aggressive will the AI settle from their culture border? The only thing we are sure is that "The earlier bird gets food".

 

[pomthom]

Does the blocking still work?

I think so. From the write-ups I've read at least.

 

[Mitchum]

I guess the 3rd city location depends more on Darius' expansion. Moreover, I'm not sure sure how K-mod makes change on AI's expansion. Does the blocking still work? How aggressive will the AI settle from their culture border? The only thing we are sure is that "The earlier bird gets food".

OK. Let's leave this discussion until the next turnset which is when we have to decide where to settle.

As far as I can tell, here is where we are:

BW next: Duckweed, Kossin (I think), pomthom, Mitchum

TW next: soundjata, Folket (I think... or maybe he wants BW next and only 2-popping settlers)

No vote: Tachy

Since the PPP was just posted a few hours ago, I'll wait for a while to give Tachy time to vote and soundjata or Folket time to convice the team of the virtues of The Wheel before BW. Specifically, I'd like to know how much this delays city #3 (and city #4) and how we're going to leverage building roads to be > chopping/whipping. I guess it's possible that if we settle city #3 a long ways away, having a road already built would speed up the settler's travel time and could make up for finishing the settler later... but how much?

We also need a vote on: complete archer -> worker or worker -> complete archer in Shanghai. The PPP says worker -> archer but at least soundjata prefers to finish the archer first.

 

[pomthom]

We also need a vote on: complete archer -> worker or worker -> complete archer in Shanghai. The PPP says worker -> archer but at least soundjata prefers to finish the archer first.

I'd prefer finishing Archer first as well. Yes I am a scared virgin

 

[Mitchum]

I'd prefer finishing Archer first as well. Yes I am a scared virgin

Let me check to see if this +1C in maintenance delays BW. I don't think it will but I want to be sure.

Also, if we build this archer, where do you want to put him? We have no roads at the moment so it will take him a long time to move from one side of the empire to the other if needed.

 

[LowtherCastle]

"The earlier bird gets food".

In case you're curious, we say, "The early bird gets the worm." Quite common too.

 

[pomthom]

Also, if we build this archer, where do you want to put him? We have no roads at the moment so it will take him a long time to move from one side of the empire to the other if needed.

If we want to send him North we can actually just move the current garrisoned Archer and gain 2 turns of movement.

However, for the moment (will change when we expand North) we can only be surprised by a dagger attack from Sury in the South: if Darius sends an army we'll see him coming thanks to our fogbusters (and have time to react hopefully). So either we let both Archers sit in Shanghai, or we send 1 to sit in between Beijing and Shanghai (he can move North or South in case of a threat).

But maybe this is just paranoia talking!

 

[Mitchum]

In case you're curious, we say, "The early bird gets the worm." Quite common too.

But what do they say about the early worm?

Or the early mouse because the second mouse is the one that gets the cheese!?!

 

[Mitchum]

We currently have 9 gold. One turn at 0% gives us +20. 29 gold is 14.5 turns of 100% research at -2 gpt or 9.67 turns at -3 gpt. Finishing the archer now will NOT delay BW (7 turns at 100%) but I'm pretty sure that it will delay The Wheel (~4.25 turns at 100%). What I'm not sure is whether Beijing growing to 6 pops on T54 will add +1C in maintenance...

So finishing the archer first will cost us ~12C (which could delay TW) and 2 worker turns for the added safty of another archer.

I'm still inclined to finish the worker first. If we see something scarry brewing in the south, we can always switch from a partial worker and complete the archer in 2 turns.