K-mod Deity Fun -- Collaboration of SGOTM teams

[pomthom]

Nice play Tachy.

-------------------------

I am very undecided about tech path.

Not sure about BW first because we don't have that much forest (although a chop in the GLH would be nice as mentioned by Tachy)... we'll need it soon for Slavery anyway but we also need our cheap Granaries to whip. I guess BW does come first, so BW > TW > Pott? (~20 turns)

An early border pop from Shangai would be great but I think that can wait for open borders and a Buddhism spread from Sury.

 

[soundjata]

Flawless play indeed

Not working the fish tile looks ugly but we seem to want hammers now...

One issue about going BW before TW is that our worker will be idle for a few turns. I am inclined to go for TW first (5 turns).

TW>Pottery>BW is probably the best in terms of growth/expansion (30 hammers granary!)

TW>BW>Pottery on the other hand surely gives a quicker TGLH.

About culture:

Spoiler :

Notice how culture overlaps across the water

 

[pomthom]

About culture:

Spoiler :

Notice how culture overlaps across the water

We're infected!

But they're infected too


Yeah I think the changes Karadoc made on city-based/empire-based culture implies that culture spreads beyond cultural borders... or something

 

[Thrar]

lurker's comment:
TW would allow you to hook up the gold for +1 . With growth, would that allow for a quicker GLH?

 

[pomthom]

lurker's comment:
TW would allow you to hook up the gold for +1 . With growth, would that allow for a quicker GLH?

It certainly does, interesting point.

Actually I'm thinking of the combination TW > BW. Trying out some rough calculations.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Lurker comment

A barb city could spawn at Pigs-1N or Pigs-1NW and with fairly high probability with 3 resource tiles in each fat cross.

 

[Manco Capac]

Lurker comment

A barb city could spawn at Pigs-1N or Pigs-1NW and with fairly high probability with 3 resource tiles in each fat cross.

Already mentioned.

 

[Folket]

To me that seems like a very early great wall.

Perhaps we can two pop whip a settler/worker with overflow into the GLH. but I guess that is 8-12 turns away.

 

[pomthom]

Going TW > BW and putting 2 chops and 0 whips, I get a GLH in 20 turns... 1 less chop should be 21 turns. But not very confident about my numbers

(sorry if it's small I didn't manage to resize correctly...)

 

[kossin]

20 turns without starting city #3 seems strange for certain.

I'm a bit sick so I'm going to be silent a few days.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

This is possibly a better alternative:

Bronze Working next while growing capital to population 6. Then switch from The Great Lighthouse to settler. Build settler and then 3P whip settler with maximum overflow into TGL. While doing this worker can chop forests into the TGL. With some micro, it should may be possible to get both TGL and a settler for the third city within 20 turns.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Duckweed]

Well done Tachywaxon. Looks like the city maintenance and/or civic cost is different. I remember that usually the 2nd city costs -3g unless with a Org leader.

Roster

Duckweed
kossin
Tachywaxon -- Just played
Mitchum -- UP
soundjata -- Away until Feb. 15
pomthom -- On Deck
Folket

 

[Mitchum]

Nice turnset, Tachy!

Got it!

I've been busy lately which is why I haven't posted too much.

I think Duckweed talked about 3-pop whipping settlers in the capital earlier. STW just mentioned something similar. I feel that this is the best approach to both REX and work on the GLH at the same time. Before I put together a more detailed PPP, I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this high-level plan:

Research BW -> grow cap to 6 pops while building the GLH -> 3-pop settler with max (or at least decent) OF into the GLH -> repeat. Without doing the math, I would think that we could complete settlers for our third and fourth cities at about the same time we finish the GLH. I'm not sure if it will be T+20 but it won't be far off. Like Kossin, I'm not a fan of just slow-building the GLH and stunting our REX entirely.

Should we consider building a workboat in Shanghai (city #2) for scouting and eventual fish nets? Or should we just keep cranking out archers?

If you zoom out and toggle "culture" on, you can see Sury culture (blue) mixed with purple to our N-NE. You can also look at Soundjata's screenshot above. Rome?

 

[Mitchum]

Going TW > BW and putting 2 chops and 0 whips, I get a GLH in 20 turns... 1 less chop should be 21 turns. But not very confident about my numbers

Hmmm... If we work the mines, cows and a plains forest (1F2H), we'd be at food neutral and we could finish the GLH with no chops and no fancy MM in 19 turns.

OF = 10H
Base = 16H (3 cows + 3 cows + 3 grass hill mine + 4 plains hill mine + 2 plains forest + 1 city center).

10 + 16 * 19 turns = 10 + 304 = 314.

If we worked the plains-hill forest (3H) for 2 turns, we could finish it in 18 turns.

I'm not proposing we do this.... but if we did want to go Wheel -> Pottery, I would think that we could get it in 15 or 16 turns if we wanted with a bit of Kossin's MM magic.

I still like BW and whipping settlers. Post BW, we could chop and mine the PH for another 4H tile which could be used in place of the GHill to slow growth if needed.

Anyone want to wager wether we have Copper in our BFC? No horsies so I'm betting either Copper or Iron...

 

[Duckweed]

Nice turnset, Tachy!

Got it!

I've been busy lately which is why I haven't posted too much.

I think Duckweed talked about 3-pop whipping settlers in the capital earlier. STW just mentioned something similar. I feel that this is the best approach to both REX and work on the GLH at the same time. Before I put together a more detailed PPP, I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this high-level plan:

Research BW -> grow cap to 6 pops while building the GLH -> 3-pop settler with max (or at least decent) OF into the GLH -> repeat. Without doing the math, I would think that we could complete settlers for our third and fourth cities at about the same time we finish the GLH. I'm not sure if it will be T+20 but it won't be far off. Like Kossin, I'm not a fan of just slow-building the GLH and stunting our REX entirely.

It's a trade-off earlier settler (expansion) vs safety of GLH, my rough calculation tells it's won't be more than 5 turns, maybe only a couple turns delay due to the compensation from earlier BW and hence more forest chops.


Should we consider building a workboat in Shanghai (city #2) for scouting and eventual fish nets? Or should we just keep cranking out archers?

To get more production from forests, we need another worker from Gold city. This also hold the 3rd archer which is going to save us 1g unit maintenance fee. I'm quite rusty now without playing civ for almost a year. I should see the necessity of this worker before Tachywaxon's set.

Anyone want to wager wether we have Copper in our BFC? No horsies so I'm betting either Copper or Iron...

We already see 3.5 resources in capital, so an extra strategic resource in capital BFC is not guaranteed.

 

[kossin]

Well done Tachywaxon. Looks like the city maintenance and/or civic cost is different. I remember that usually the 2nd city costs -3g unless with a Org leader.

Maze map seems to have different (lower) upkeep.

Should we consider building a workboat in Shanghai (city #2) for scouting and eventual fish nets? Or should we just keep cranking out archers?

Fish net is a long way off (Monument/Religion) so it'd be purely for scouting. Alternative is to slow-build a worker which might be preferable but it seems like our current worker doesn't have that much to do

Anyone want to wager wether we have Copper in our BFC? No horsies so I'm betting either Copper or Iron...

I mentioned earlier possibility of hidden resource but I have no clue if Maze follows the 3-resources rule. Copper would be great of course. I couldn't count and I still can't.

I haven't looked at the new save [yet - take my comments with a grain of salt or several...], but my objective would be to maximize expansion and capital size while not pushing GLH too far back. If possible to shave 1~2 turns on GLH but at the cost of population in capital, it's not a good trade-off pre-granary.

 

[Mitchum]

To get more production from forests, we need another worker from Gold city. This also hold the 3rd archer which is going to save us 1g unit maintenance fee. I'm quite rusty now without playing civ for almost a year. I should see the necessity of this worker before Tachywaxon's set.

We don't have much for the worker to do right now, but I guess we will when a worker does come from city #2 (e.g. chopping, roading, improving city #3, #4, etc.

But what do we do with our current worker between now and BW? Finish the farm and then??? I guess move to the plains hill and get ready to chop? Spawn bust in the south and then move to arrive the turn before BW is finished?

I still have to work out the micro for the capital to see if it's possible to get BW a turn sooner without sacrificing too much production (I'm away from the game at the moment to verify it).

 

[Mitchum]

Fish net is a long way off (Monument/Religion) so it'd be purely for scouting.

Right. That is why I said exploration and eventual fish nets. It would be nice to map out a few AI cities once they get Writing for international, GLH-powered trade income.

my objective would be to maximize expansion and capital size while not pushing GLH too far back. If possible to shave 1~2 turns on GLH but at the cost of population in capital, it's not a good trade-off pre-granary.

Agreed. I guess I should map out the capital micro to see when the settler whips occur and how soon we can complete the GLH. I didn't want to go too far down that path though until we had consensus on BW vs. Wheel/Pottery.

It sounds like Duckweed and Kossin are on board with BW next (at least they didn't say "No!"). What does everyone else think?

 

[pomthom]

I think going BW and putting some earlier whips and chops is indeed a good call, so that's a +1 from me.

I'm very inexperienced in production calculations, especially pre-Granary so I don't really know. 2 3-pop whips pre-granary seems a bit rough? I couldn't know without testing, and I would screw up the whips anyway


Our worker is sitting on his ass now, but if we whip a settler in ~8 turns we will need another one quite soon. But I'm more worried about our defense if we get a 1000 Archer dagger attack...

 

[Folket]

Well, my vote is on wheel, then BW and pottery last.

I do not see BW helping much. getting BW after pottery will still give us GLH at the same time. Slavery is not that impressive before pottery. We can not whip out the GLH, but we can whip a settler, but if we do it early we will have a worse GLH date.

Wheel will allow us to grow our capital to size 6, and even size 7 to prepare whipping a settler without loosing to many tiles.