K-Mod: Far Beyond the Sword
- Thread starter karadoc
- Start date
Yes, as satrapper said, double-click now wakes all rather than groups all. (I'm sorry if this messes up how you usually control your units.) There are a few reasons why I changed it. Firstly, there was previously no easy-access way to wake all units on the plot, and I think it's a useful command. Secondly, double-click is something that people often do accidentally when trying to open the city screen, and its pretty annoying when it groups a bunch of units that the player doesn't want grouped. Thirdly, the group-all functionality is already easy to do with alt + click; so I don't think it really needs double-click as well. (Incidentally, you mentioned that you had to manually group them using shift - I recommend that you just do a single alt+click instead.
)I don't know of any script which guarantees a setup like that. I reckon the best way to get that kind of script would be to edit the Terra script to be a bit like Not Too Big or Small; ie. rather simply dividing the map into two halves (unsettled and settled), it should choose how big each section should be, and then divide the map into however many sections will fit - and then set half of the sections to settled, and half to unsettled............... .... .. but there's a problem.
Just as I was writing that last sentence, it occurred to me that the game might not include the option to set multiple starting areas. So I'm not sure if you can select half of the areas to be starting zone and half not.@Gamer999, there definitely still are some weaknesses in the AI's reasoning for when and who to go to war with, particularly in the early game. In the early game, the AI finds the unsettled areas a bit confusing and thus sometimes doesn't properly understand who is a neighbour and who isn't. ... One day I'll probably get around to teaching the AI how to choose who to attack, but I still haven't done it yet.
--
I played a multiplayer game yesterday, and I noticed some oddities in the unit cycling and automoves. I haven't quite put my finger on what exactly is wrong, but I'm pretty sure there is a bug in there somewhere. I suspect there is something which causes automoves to trigger at the start of the turn sometimes (which it shouldn't). I hadn't noticed it before, so maybe it only affects simultaneous turn games or something; I don't know.
If I find the bug, maybe I'll upload v1.29b. -- If anyone here discovers some way to make the new unit cycling do something weird, please let me know!
Yes, as satrapper said, double-click now wakes all rather than groups all. (I'm sorry if this messes up how you usually control your units.) There are a few reasons why I changed it. Firstly, there was previously no easy-access way to wake all units on the plot, and I think it's a useful command. Secondly, double-click is something that people often do accidentally when trying to open the city screen, and its pretty annoying when it groups a bunch of units that the player doesn't want grouped. Thirdly, the group-all functionality is already easy to do with alt + click; so I don't think it really needs double-click as well. (Incidentally, you mentioned that you had to manually group them using shift - I recommend that you just do a single alt+click instead.
Ahhh. Thank you. And thank you to satrapper as well.
noto2
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,715
Karadoc what difficulty do you play on with your own mod? I've played about 15 games with Kmod and only won 1 of them - barely, it was an extremely close game. I've found that almost all my Kmod games go like this - I get invaded by turn 70-80 by 1 or 2 of my neighbours, they have a stack of 4 axes and 4 swords, they have 5 cities and I have 3. It's like you've improved the AI so much that I'm not sure I need to play at monarch anymore. You've made the AI play like a human player would... except on monarch the AI gets noticeable cheat bonuses. I'm wondering if I should drop it down to noble or something. Kmod is FAR more difficult that even MP games, because while human players are very sneaky they at least don't get cheat bonuses. Another thing I've seen the AI do in about half of my Kmod games is declare extremely early, like on turn 40 and invade me with a stack of 5-10 archers. Now those archers can't take a city but they can sure pillage my empire into oblivion. And then it's not like the AI neglects its research either. I haven't won the liberalism race in a single kmod game yet, I think. So what difficulty do you play with? What about others that play this mod, did you have to drop the difficulty level?
Mattygerst
King
I am only good enough to play on Prince. This most recent game is the closest I've come to being in a position for a win. Inca won a culture victory and I needed about 20 more turns in order to successfully destroy a city or two while going for a Space Victory (or dragging it on to a domination if needed) with the army that I was amassing. I simply started my war plans a bit too late and was also thrown off because Khmer warred with me just as I wanted to build up my military and it dragged me down a little bit.
Any thoughts/critiques?
Any thoughts/critiques?
Before K-Mod, I would win most games on Emperor, and I'd play on Immortal if I wanted a challenge. These days, I win most games on Monarch, and I play on Emperor if I want a challenge. (actually, I almost always play on Monarch, because I need to be able to survive the whole game so that I can test stuff!)
By the way, I think I've found and fixed the unit cycling problems that I mentioned in my previous post. One of them is particularly annoying (and somewhat obvious. I'm not sure why I missed it before uploading): it doesn't cycle if run out of moves due to an attack command. -- I'll upload v1.29b soon to fix that bug and a couple of other minor issues. But before I do, I'd like to fix this language problem that shad0w broker was asking about. It's trickier than I expected, but I've got an idea in mind that I think will solve the problem. (The end result will be that if the currently selected language is not available in the mod text files, the new text will be in English regardless of the settings, but the non-modded text will remain in the chosen language.)
By the way, I think I've found and fixed the unit cycling problems that I mentioned in my previous post. One of them is particularly annoying (and somewhat obvious. I'm not sure why I missed it before uploading): it doesn't cycle if run out of moves due to an attack command. -- I'll upload v1.29b soon to fix that bug and a couple of other minor issues. But before I do, I'd like to fix this language problem that shad0w broker was asking about. It's trickier than I expected, but I've got an idea in mind that I think will solve the problem. (The end result will be that if the currently selected language is not available in the mod text files, the new text will be in English regardless of the settings, but the non-modded text will remain in the chosen language.)
Would it make sense to balance the improved AI with some reduced bonuses? I feel like it should at least theoretically be possible for some of the most advanced players to beat K-Mod the highest levels. And I haven't read about anyone ever doing so...
Ultimately, probably it would probably made sense to rebalance the effects of the different difficulty levels but I don't intend to do that in the near future, mostly because I like having the old difficulty levels as a kind of reference point for how the AI is doing. I figure that there's still a decent span of different difficulty levels anyway. Maybe no one will play on either Chieftain nor Deity, but I think there's enough stuff in between to suit most people.
@shad0w_broker, if you're still around, I'd like you to test the DLL I've attached to this post. (Use it to replace the dll in the K-Mod assets folder.)
I'm pretty sure it will make the language settings work in the way that you wanted; but I can't test it myself, because my version of Civ4 matches the mod's languages anyway.
If it all goes well, that'll probably be the v1.29b dll.
[edit]
I've removed the attachment, because I've uploaded v1.29b which includes the changes that I wanted tested.
Makes perfect sense as long as K-Mod is still work in progress. Thanks for the consideration.
I've decided to just go ahead and upload v1.29b without testing the language thing. Maybe the languages problem will be fixed, or maybe it won't. But at least the cycling problems that I mentioned will be fixed.
[Edit]
I accidentally uploaded the wrong version for a little while. The version I uploaded had an experimental efficiency change in it which, as it turns out, caused the game to revert to some of the old text entries rather than the new. It's fixed now.
I'm not sure if anyone downloaded that odd version. If you did, it's no big deal, but you may see some things like "War weariness: 3 : 3%" instead of "War Weariness: 3%". If you see something like that, please download v1.29b again. (I'm sorry for the mistake.)
[Edit]
I accidentally uploaded the wrong version for a little while. The version I uploaded had an experimental efficiency change in it which, as it turns out, caused the game to revert to some of the old text entries rather than the new. It's fixed now.
I'm not sure if anyone downloaded that odd version. If you did, it's no big deal, but you may see some things like "War weariness: 3 : 3%" instead of "War Weariness: 3%". If you see something like that, please download v1.29b again. (I'm sorry for the mistake.)
kardoc
I've found what i was looking for, and i strongly recommend adding it to K-Mod:
http://samiam.org/Civ4/
Just put the py file in K-Mod\PublicMaps
This map script is PERFECT, usually 1 continent is inhabited, as well as few other smaller continents and islands, while the other major continent is always empty as a "new world". It's quite different from the "Terra" map, which is locked with 2 continents 1 inhabited 1 desert.
Other things to suggest regarding K-Mod:
-I've noticed AI never released a colony in my games (at least 10 late games!), is it normal? I really miss the birth of new civs via this process..
-I can easily take over the AI in late games by stacking military trainers in 1 of my cities and building eroic epic, military academy and all the military stuff there, in order to have an overpowered city producing units in 1 turn at marathon with at least 3 promotions! Now the Ai should be able to do the same, or i should be forbidden to stack military trainers: maybe make that just 1 can be used in 1 city?
-Make the mod less fun, seriously, it is taking away my RL >.<
I've found what i was looking for, and i strongly recommend adding it to K-Mod:
http://samiam.org/Civ4/
Just put the py file in K-Mod\PublicMaps
This map script is PERFECT, usually 1 continent is inhabited, as well as few other smaller continents and islands, while the other major continent is always empty as a "new world". It's quite different from the "Terra" map, which is locked with 2 continents 1 inhabited 1 desert.
Other things to suggest regarding K-Mod:
-I've noticed AI never released a colony in my games (at least 10 late games!), is it normal? I really miss the birth of new civs via this process..
-I can easily take over the AI in late games by stacking military trainers in 1 of my cities and building eroic epic, military academy and all the military stuff there, in order to have an overpowered city producing units in 1 turn at marathon with at least 3 promotions! Now the Ai should be able to do the same, or i should be forbidden to stack military trainers: maybe make that just 1 can be used in 1 city?
-Make the mod less fun, seriously, it is taking away my RL >.<
sjodster
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2010
- Messages
- 96
While merging K-Mod into Realism: Invictus I noticed your note in CvCityAI.cpp line 5537:
I believe the original intent of that code was to prevent great people from building their works in small outlying cities. In particular I think it affected the use of great generals to construct military academies. I think that was the intent, anyway.
I actually had a problem with it in Realism: Invictus because it prevented AI military generals from founding military doctrines and traditions in the early game when cities were small. I believe I changed the code to be based on city rank instead.
I'm not recommending that you re-instate the code, I just saw your note and thought I'd share my observation.
By the way, I'd love to talk to you about your pathfinder sometime.
-Josh
Code:
/* original bts code
if (!canConstruct(eBuilding))
{
//This building is being constructed in some special way,
//reduce the value for small cities.
if (getPopulation() < 6)
{
iValue /= (8 - getPopulation());
}
} */ // disabled by K-Mod. I don't understand the point of this, and it messes up the building value for things that are in-progress or already built.I believe the original intent of that code was to prevent great people from building their works in small outlying cities. In particular I think it affected the use of great generals to construct military academies. I think that was the intent, anyway.
I actually had a problem with it in Realism: Invictus because it prevented AI military generals from founding military doctrines and traditions in the early game when cities were small. I believe I changed the code to be based on city rank instead.
I'm not recommending that you re-instate the code, I just saw your note and thought I'd share my observation.
By the way, I'd love to talk to you about your pathfinder sometime.
-Josh
@danwood, That script does sound good; but I probably won't add it, because it's an independent component which can be used with or without K-Mod. (By that reasoning, I probably also shouldn't include my script, Not Too Big or Small, but I've left that in there for my own convenience. I basically just made it a part of K-Mod so that it wouldn't need its own version control repository.)
Regarding the AI creating colonies, they do still do it sometimes, but only rarely. Some time ago, I tightened the conditions so that the AI would try to calculate whether or not creating a colony would help them win the game... Most of the time it will not help them, and so they don't usually do it. -- But I think you're probably right that it adds some flavour and fun to the game when new civs are created mid-game. For the next version, I'll try slightly relaxing the conditions for creating colonies in particular circumstances, so that they AI will do it a bit more often, but also so that it's a bit biased by the personality of the AI leaders.
@sjodster, you're probably right about that bit of code. I don't think we really need it though, because ultimately, if the building evaluation is accurate, then our great generals (or whatever) can just calculate which city would get the most value from the special building, and then just put it in that city. That's what currently happens with all the special buildings; and I think corporation HQ and academies are placed very well in K-Mod... military academies are a bit less certain.
I'd be happy enough to talk about the pathfinder sometime...
--
In the next version, I'd like to nerf spontaneously spawned barbarian galleys. Land barbarians are far easier to deal with than sea barbarians. Because on land, players have access to various promotions, unit types, and defensive bonuses, which can tip the odds strongly in their favour. On the sea, the only advantage available is the 10% coastal defence, which is a relatively small bonus. I'd like to tip the scales against the barbarian galleys a little bit so that players don't have to rely quite so much on luck when defending their coastal resources.
I've got a very simple change in mind, which is easy to implement: any spontaneously spawned barbarian sea unit gets a -10% combat penalty - permanently. (Galleys that the barbarians build in their own cities do not get this penalty.)
I can just give the galleys this penalty on its own; but I was thinking maybe it would make things more transparent if I attached the 10% penalty to a new promotion, called "disorganized". I figure that if player's can see that the barbarian ships have this special anti-promotion, then the -10% would be less mysterious.
... So, today I made an icon for the new promotion. Here's what I came up with:
I reckon that looks pretty good. But when I used it in-game, I was disappointed to find that the tiny version in the mouseover box for the barbarian galley was just too small... the crack was barely visible. The new promotion icon looks essentially the same as Combat I.
So, I'm seeking advice. What should I do:
Regarding the AI creating colonies, they do still do it sometimes, but only rarely. Some time ago, I tightened the conditions so that the AI would try to calculate whether or not creating a colony would help them win the game... Most of the time it will not help them, and so they don't usually do it. -- But I think you're probably right that it adds some flavour and fun to the game when new civs are created mid-game. For the next version, I'll try slightly relaxing the conditions for creating colonies in particular circumstances, so that they AI will do it a bit more often, but also so that it's a bit biased by the personality of the AI leaders.
@sjodster, you're probably right about that bit of code. I don't think we really need it though, because ultimately, if the building evaluation is accurate, then our great generals (or whatever) can just calculate which city would get the most value from the special building, and then just put it in that city. That's what currently happens with all the special buildings; and I think corporation HQ and academies are placed very well in K-Mod... military academies are a bit less certain.
I'd be happy enough to talk about the pathfinder sometime...
--
In the next version, I'd like to nerf spontaneously spawned barbarian galleys. Land barbarians are far easier to deal with than sea barbarians. Because on land, players have access to various promotions, unit types, and defensive bonuses, which can tip the odds strongly in their favour. On the sea, the only advantage available is the 10% coastal defence, which is a relatively small bonus. I'd like to tip the scales against the barbarian galleys a little bit so that players don't have to rely quite so much on luck when defending their coastal resources.
I've got a very simple change in mind, which is easy to implement: any spontaneously spawned barbarian sea unit gets a -10% combat penalty - permanently. (Galleys that the barbarians build in their own cities do not get this penalty.)
I can just give the galleys this penalty on its own; but I was thinking maybe it would make things more transparent if I attached the 10% penalty to a new promotion, called "disorganized". I figure that if player's can see that the barbarian ships have this special anti-promotion, then the -10% would be less mysterious.
... So, today I made an icon for the new promotion. Here's what I came up with:
I reckon that looks pretty good. But when I used it in-game, I was disappointed to find that the tiny version in the mouseover box for the barbarian galley was just too small... the crack was barely visible. The new promotion icon looks essentially the same as Combat I.
So, I'm seeking advice. What should I do:
- Just use my new icon anyway.
- Use one of the unused icons which are already in the game. (None of them are particularly well suited, because they all are made to look like positive effects. I'd probably pick the one that looks a bit like a flame / blob thing.)
- Edit the icon again to make it more distinctive. (I'm not sure I could be bothered doing that in the near future. Drawing is not my forte.)
- Just give the galleys the -10% without attaching it to any special promotion.
- Abandon the whole -10% idea.
noto2
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,715
I think everyone here can agree that barb galleys are a pain in the butt. As you pointed out, all you can do is build a couple galleys and defend your seafood and early game hammers are precious. However, it does give one incentive to get metal casting early for triremes. I'd say just give them -10%, they don't really need a special promotion for it.
@karadoc
thats a real good idea. seems a shame to just ditch the icon sfter all the effort though. a simple quick fix might be to just convert it to grayscale. i just did it there in gimp and think it still looks good, the grey colour kinda emphasizes the barbarianess of the (anti)promotion, i think.
and just by the way, we all really appreciate the time and effort you put in to this mod. thank you.
thats a real good idea. seems a shame to just ditch the icon sfter all the effort though. a simple quick fix might be to just convert it to grayscale. i just did it there in gimp and think it still looks good, the grey colour kinda emphasizes the barbarianess of the (anti)promotion, i think.
and just by the way, we all really appreciate the time and effort you put in to this mod. thank you.
Um the Muse
King
Changing the color makes sense to me. Maybe use the barbarian's skull icon with a color swap?
On the other hand, I'd like to see you work your magic on barb galleys. I know you're opposed to major changes, but I think that the following follow the same spirit as the rest of your mod:
The idea is that these are pirates, not cyclones of destruction. They should have one purpose--plundering--rather than chasing military ships or spawning somewhere useless to them. If all they do is plunder, they have no reason to follow or destroy fishing vessels.
They should be able to get better ships later, but shouldn't be able to demolish your entire navy. Maybe that -10% that you were talking about is good enough, but I would suggest -15%. Either that, or make ships cheaper to build.
On the other hand, I'd like to see you work your magic on barb galleys. I know you're opposed to major changes, but I think that the following follow the same spirit as the rest of your mod:
The idea is that these are pirates, not cyclones of destruction. They should have one purpose--plundering--rather than chasing military ships or spawning somewhere useless to them. If all they do is plunder, they have no reason to follow or destroy fishing vessels.
They should be able to get better ships later, but shouldn't be able to demolish your entire navy. Maybe that -10% that you were talking about is good enough, but I would suggest -15%. Either that, or make ships cheaper to build.
noto2
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,715
I'd like to talk about the AI in Kmod, from a strategy perspective. Normal BTS AI seemed to me to usually play in "sandbox" mode. Occasionally it would acquire vassals, once in a while, and occasionally it would head for a culture or space win. In Kmod, however, I find that in every game one AI starts chewing up others, and acquiring vassals, and eventually becomes unstoppable. It happens literally every game for me (playing on monarch)...well okay I won 1 Kmod game by time victory, out of the 20 or so that I've played now. Anyway, I've tried to manage diplomacy Bismark style aka balance of power, where I try to make sure no one civ gets too powerful (unless it's me) but I never manage to do it. One civ will be ROFLstomping the board and and I'll try to rush to the defense of whoever is dying to it, only to be dogpiled by another civ. I find the AI in Kmod plays exactly like a ruthless human player in MP, just going for conquest/domination victory and doing it well. How do you guys deal with this? What am I missing?
