Keek-01

The game crashed again. I'm getting too frustrated with this to continue; I don't want to have to redo 5 turns again. I don't know why it's doing this.
 
Are you up on patch 3.19? I'd try a) getting rid of all those mods you've downloaded and b) setting your autosave interval to 1 (in the civilization.ini which is usually under my docs-> my games -> beyond the sword
 
I bought it and I launch it through steam so it should automatically patch to the most recent version every time I run it. I already got rid of the single mod I tried.
 
Here is what I have, I'll let you take over from here since I'm crashing. Sorry for the lack of pictures.


Turn 54:
Back to mathematics since stonehenge is taken
I think going toward the gold and iron is probably a good idea, as you suggested
Built road on the mine
Encountered some barbarians

Turne 55: Went with Barracks in Ohio
Sending warrior toward unexplored northeast
CAP: This looked like the best spot for me, I'm sure you'll tell me otherwise if I'm wrong. I wanted to be close enough to the gold and the iron

Turn 56:
warriors defended against the barbarians. I made a mistake going to a jungle that we couldn't chop down...
Going to settle here instead since a single expansion would get us the gold, the iron, and the hills/forest/plains.

Founded Missouri and started on a Granary in Missouri

Turn 57:
Reinforced the accompanying warrior in Missouri

Turn 58:
Little unsure what to do in Ohio, so I went with another warrior
Can't support tech anymore, the level is going to be lowered automatically

Turn 59:
Warrior didn't take long... I guess I'll go with another settler.

Turn 60:
Mostly warrior exploring

The crash happens whenever I try to talk to the Greeks.
 

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Okay - there was a bit of confusion as to who was up, which... is ... unusual :eek: in a 2 player SG! :lol:

But anyway, I'm up and a bit of a preflight. Overall, things are looking good.

We have 4 workers - good!



But.... 1 is building a cottage at the capital (good), 1 is building a 7 turn mine in the jungle (okay), 1 is sitting in the jungle at Texas (?) and one is building a road to nowhere (??!). One of those should be over at Missouri.

I also swap over to a 4t detour to Mysticism - we have a DESPERATE need to expand our borders over at Texas and Missouri to get the gold and gems online.

Turn 63 - our settler is born in Ohio. I decide to send him east towards the horses.



I thought about the pig / iron site to the NW, but I figured that will still be there in a bit, and I also thought about the flood plains / pig site to the south of Texas, but that seemed a bit far for now.

We want to be careful to not expand TOO much, since more cities can cause your economy to crash, but we have 2 luxuries (gold / gems) which also provide lots of commerce, and this is only Prince too - higher difficulties have even more maintenance costs.

Turn 64 and Mysticism comes in - I put us back on Mathematics. I keep Texas on the library but swap Missouri to a monument. The worker I sent over there at the beginning of the set starts chopping a forest (to get the monument out fast).

Turn 65 - I triple whip the library in Texas, which accomplishes a few things



Library = culture, which will pop the borders so we can get the gems. Library also = +25% science which is good. We can hire scientists if we need or want to here. Also that gets rid of our unhappiness and unhealthiness problems.



Turn 67 - Little trick here - I can't mine the gems at Texas yet because they're not in our borders. But there's jungle on them anyways, and I CAN chop the jungle on them even when they're out of the borders, which will make the mine take less time when I can do the mine.

Turn 68 - Found the city of Alabama - start it on a monument



Turn 69 - I send our worker on to the gold to start roading it and notice a Portuguese city in the area. Looks like our borders are just about set in this part of the world. We probably don't have room for a city to the southwest of Missouri but may have room for a city or two to the north.



And that's all she wrote. Ohio is building a settler - my thought was 1NW of the northern pigs and I have a worker roading that way. There's also a worker roading to our easternmost city of Alabama.

As we get the gems and gold online, we'll want to grow our cities up to their new happy caps (7 in Ohio and 6 in the other cities)

One other thing to consider is that Sitting Bull sent us over a Hindu missionary on the last turn of my set



So we have the option to convert to Hinduism, which would a) give us +1 happy in Texas (the only city currently with it), b) improve our relations with SB, and c) worsen our relations with Pericles (who is Buddhist). I declined for now, but would consider it if we got more cities with Hinduism. SB is our neighbor and Pericles is further away.

Here's an overview shot.



We have plenty of room to settle - if we're quick enough and get a settler out of Texas, we might be able to squeeze a city in on the coast SE of the plains cows.
 

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Another thought that I had last night about religion is that (regardless of whether or not we convert), each city with religion gets 1 culture per turn.

To spread it we'd need to either research Meditation, build a Monastery and then missionaries, or research up to Monotheism and revolt to Organized Religion, which allows you to build missionaries without a monastery.

After Math, we should check to see if anyone has Alphabet. If not, we should probably research that next so that we can trade techs.

The other possibility would be slipping in Masonry so that we can start work on the Pyramids at the capital
 
So far so good, no crashing

Turn 71:
Looks like we got the gems by Texas
Finished training a worker in Texas. Working on another Settler to try to grab the southwest area before it's gone
New worker started building road to gems

Turn 72:
Attacked by barbarians, won
Settler finished in Ohio, starting warrior to accompany settler
Mostly just warrior exploring

Turn 73:
Attacked by barbarians, won
Nothing else new

Turn 74:
Mathematics completed, started fishing (ultimate goal Calendar to tap those sugars we have, plus we finally have a coastal city)
Negotiated Open Borders with Wang Kon for exploration
Beat up on some undefended barbarians

Turn 75:
Started last road segment to connect Alabama.

Turn 76:
Granary finished in Missouri, started on Library (18 turns)
Died trying to attack a barbarian
We may have a culture war going for the gold:


Turn 77:
Fishing finished, Decided on Masonry instead of Sailing like I originally planned (for Quarry)
Monument finished in Ohio. Only options for building are settler, warrior, or worker Realized now should have finished Masonry sooner :( Set it up for worker and added two scientist specialists to reduce time for Masonry from 11 turns to 5.
Road to Alabama finished

Turn 78:
Borders expanded near Missouri. The gold is ours for now:

Settled Montana 1NW of northern pig, as you suggested. It seemed like an odd position for me, being one square away from the coast, but I'll take your word for it.:

Started on Monument and fortified the settler chaperone

Going to stop here, I feel like I may be messing something up and I want you to double check it.
 

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gilgatex said:
Settled Montana 1NW of northern pig, as you suggested. It seemed like an odd position for me, being one square away from the coast, but I'll take your word for it.:

No, No, NO!!! I *SAID* 1 square northEAST of the pigs!!!

Let me prove it to you!

regoarrarr said:
Ohio is building a settler - my thought was 1NW of the northern pigs and I have a worker roading that way.

Errrrr :blush: :lol:

No problem - you're right that one square off the coast is generally not advisable and what I *meant* was 1 NE. But no worries - we'll roll with it

The other thing is on that gold



You can tell from the shape of the Portuguese borders that his city is 1SW of the rice. So the gold would be in his 3rd ring, and it's in our 2nd ring. Generally speaking, it's difficult to get cultural control of a tile that is closer to another civ's city. If it was 2nd ring to both of us then it would be up for grabs, but as it stands, we're definitely in good shape.
 
Okay - first of all tech path. I don't like the Fishing / Sailing path. We should be going for Alphabet. We can trade for all those techs once we got Alphabet. On higher levels one of the AIs probably have had it by now. At this point, I am not sure if it makes sense to go for Alpha after Masonry or not - or maybe hope that one of these jokers will have it (and we'll have something to trade for it)

I MM (micromanage) Ohio to get worker and Masonry in 3.

Do a worker check - I cancel the worker cottaging at Missouri so I can send him to mine the gold. Similarly, what is this worker doing at Alabama



Why is he chopping jungle here? A much better use would be cottaging (or farming) a river tile. We do need to chop this jungle but not yet. Worker turns are precious.

T78 - Settler is born in Texas and I send him to the SW to the cows. I set it on a warrior but you're right that we need some more things to build. I whip the monument in Alabama to get those borders expanded.

T81 - South Dakota founded near the western cows. I was torn between putting it on that place or 1E to reduce border tensions with Sitting Bull. Also the gems come online so Ohio is no longer unhappy. Pyramids due in 13, but that will be less because I have 2 workers doing some chops.



We're then greeted the next turn by the dumbest popup in the history of the game



I decline, of course...

T83 - We've got a barb city to our SE - once we get our iron(s) hooked up, we'll want to build some axes or swords and take this out (once it's grown to size 2). It's in a good spot for our empire. I'm also building a Hammam in Texas (and we should queue more of those up) - it's our UB (unique building) and gives 2 happy (in addition to the 2 health of the aqueduct that it replaces). We'll also want to build the Hanging Gardens somewhere (probably Ohio once it's done with the Pyramids)



T84 - We must have missed a civ as I'm greeted by the majesty of Babylon. And I didn't even have to pay extra to see him!!! (A little Civ 5 humor for you :lol:)

T85 - Buddhism spread in Missouri and Montana, so we have another religion to decide on, if/when we want to convert. Also I spot a barb city



T87 - Library-> Axe in Missouri. Generally I don't like building (real) military units in cities without a barracks, but on Prince, even 1 unpromoted axe is probably enough to take out 2 warriors in that barb city.

I played one extra turn to get us the Pyramids, which we landed at the end of T90. We have a slight barb problem at Ohio.



Luckily we have enough overflow from the Pyramids to complete an axeman in 1 turn. Production happens before barbs move, so we have no chance to lose Ohio. If he attacks, he'll almost certainly lose. If he pillages, whack him with the axe, then send that to Aryan. Evac the worker 2N (along the road) and have him cottage that river grass forest.

We'll want to revolt to Representation, but not this turn (so the axe completes). That gives 3 happies to our 5 largest cities, so let's get those cities growing vertically!! Rep also gives us +3 science to all specialists, so it may make sense to hire a few scientists at some places, once they get to their happy cap. Here's a look at the demographics



We're #1 in food, prod and GNP, which are the most important categories. That's only going to get better as we grow our city.

My thoughts on city builds -> Ohio should go Hammam->Hanging Gardens. We do want to keep building workers and settlers to expand as well.

If Sitting Bull asks us to convert to Hinduism, I'd probably do it. Probably not worth a -1 for refusing him. If Pericles asks us to convert to Buddhism I'd probably tell him to stick it. Watch for the availability of granary whips in SD, AL and MT.

I put a sign between Ohio and Alabama for the settler that was just born in Texas. Somewhere in there seems best. The west is about settled but there's plenty of room in the east. We'll need to clean out the barb city first though.
 

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Makes sense South Dakota wants to become part of the native american nation :D

I guess I still need work on the best way to utilize workers Up until this game I had always just had them auto-improve.

So why cottages on rivers? I'm kind of seeing this as never needing to build farms except for resources, since money is hard to come by, but growth can be achieved by other ways.

Also alphabet lets us get to trading, and it looks like I'll get first crack at it. What are some good tips for trading?
 
Makes sense South Dakota wants to become part of the native american nation :D

:lol:

I guess I still need work on the best way to utilize workers Up until this game I had always just had them auto-improve.

So why cottages on rivers? I'm kind of seeing this as never needing to build farms except for resources, since money is hard to come by, but growth can be achieved by other ways.

Rivers are good for everything, not only cottages, because they give 1 commerce vs. just a regular tile. For cottages they're especially good because you're commerce focused anyways. So a cottage on a regular grassland tile is 2/0/1 (food/hammers/commerce) but on a river tile it's 2/0/2. This is especially important if you're financial, since a river cottage is automatically 2/0/3.

And in our game we probably should be building more farms, since we're Philosophical AND have the Pyramids, so we should be hiring more scientists. Plus we probably do want to get some farms like at the gold/iron city that has no food.
Also alphabet lets us get to trading, and it looks like I'll get first crack at it. What are some good tips for trading?

Try to keep monopoly techs. Also remember that you can't trade for a tech that you just traded for the pre-req to until the next turn. So if say you trade for Polytheism, you wouldn't be able to trade for Monotheism until the next turn. That works both ways too - if you trade someone Writing, you won't be able to trade them Alphabet till the next turn.

In a higher level game, the general "plan" is you research Aesthetics, then trade that for Alpha, Math and IW. In this case we already have those techs and Aesthetics isn't much for us (though we'll probably want to get there before too long to build (or engineer rush) the Great Library.

The other thing to remember is the dreaded "WFYABTA" limit (We Fear You Are Becoming Too Advanced). Each Civ has a tech "counter" that counts how many times you get a tech by trade. Once you reach a certain limit (varies by leader, and doesn't matter if you are Friendly with that civ), they'll stop trading techs to you. The mechanic is debated as to its usefulness and can be fairly frustrating, but was put in place to avoid some of the tech brokering shenanigans that you could (and in many cases HAD TO) do in Civ 3.

Since it's based on number of techs and not tech beakers, the general idea (especially in a Prince game) is that we probably should not bother trading for "junk" techs like Hunting or Archery or Sailing, as that will increase our WFYABTA counter for no real gain. So I'd focus only on the bigger techs.

The big techs we want to get next are Currency (important economic tech) and then Calendar. Next would probably be Code of Laws -> Civil Service. If you can pick up any of those techs (or probably Aesthetics or Construction) by trade then go for it. Plus once we get Currency we can start selling off our junk techs for cash, which will allow us to run a higher science slider.

I know I talked about holding on to monopoly techs, but the other thing to remember is that it goes especially true for Alphabet. As long as nobody else has Alphabet, nobody ELSE can trade techs. So the longer we can keep that true, the slower the other civs will tech, which is "a good thing" (TM)
 
Ok, I got alphabet. Here is the trading situation:



My impression, giving your WFYABTA advice, this looks like nothing worth trading, right? (Since the "best" tech they're willing to trade is 143 beakers)
 
Okay so Hammurabi looks to have Code of Laws, given that he shows Philosophy in his "can research" pile. The other option would be Drama, but he doesn't have Aesthetics.

That would be worth trading for but we need a pre-req. I say let's go for Currency, which is the next tech we want anyways.

Sailing is probably worth trading for, but we don't need it yet sine nobody has Calendar (it required Math, which nobody has). So if/when we're ready to tech Calendar (since we're likely to want it before anyone else has it), Writing for Sailing probably makes sense.

Currency will also let us trade our techs for money.

If anybody asks for / tries to extort tech, I'd probably tell them no, unless it was a junk tech (like Writing at this point), and maybe only then if it was a civ we "like" (which I guess we should probably figure out at some point)....
 
Turn 91:
First order of business: Axemen slaughter barbarians
I start to sneak in a monument for South Dakota because of this:

Moving settlers over near the hills/forest/plains

Turn 92:
Started Hammam in Ohio after second axeman finished. Promoted Axeman with city attack and started moving him down toward Aryan
Barbarians near Alabama, hid worker

Turn 93:
South Dakota expanded


Turn 94:
Started Hammam in Missouri
Judism spread to Alabama. Asked if we wanted to change to Judism, said no for now

Turn 95:
Abe asked for open borders. We don't really need it so I declined
Got a Warrior and an Axeman set to take Aryan (now pop 3). There is another axeman a few turns out.
Founded Oregon near a triple hammer. Started Granary.


Turn 96:
Finished Alphabet
Started Sailing (to get to Calendar so we can start utilizing bananas and sugar)
Switched to Currency

Turn 97:
Traded Writing for Meditation to Pericles

Turn 98:
Finished Granary in Montana. Started Hammam (32 turns)
Have two axemen and warrior ready to take Aryan next turn.

Turn 99:
Finished Hammam in Ohio, started Hanging gardens. Only 11 turns because of stone.
Finished Axeman in Texas, started Barracks
Slaughtered Aryan with a single Axeman attack. Installed new governor (not a bad location I guess). Started on Monument

Attacked the 2 stray barbarians around the new town. Killed one and lost a Warrior.

This seems like a good stopping point.
 

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Okay preflight check. Things are for the most part looking good.

First of all, we have not yet revolted to Representation :smoke:, so I do that.

I also rename Aryan to California, another good state we took from the "barbarians" :lol:



Joao comes calling for Math.... uh no.



Polytheism though, Abe? Sure...

Later in the set, we get a Great Engineer (it was 50/50 between that and a scientist). The Hanging Gardens are too cheap to rush, plus we're almost done with it. I am somewhat tempted to settle him, but I think we should wait and rush the Great Library with him. We can talk more at the end of the set.



T107 - I MM Ohio to finish the Hanging Gardens in 1 turn at the price of a few food.



Hanging Gardens completes in 175 BC, which gives us 1 population in each of our 8 cities :yay:

Here's the tech screen



I do the following trades:
Meditation to Wang Kon for 85 gold
Math to Pericles for Sailing, Polytheism and 30 gold
Meditation to Joao for 40 gold.

All that gold lets me turn up science to 70%, losing -29 gold per turn. I set research to Calendar, due in 6 turns. We need more workers (and settlers) for sure.

T113 - Calendar comes in and I put us on Aesthetics to head for The Great Library.

I have a few settlers / workers in queue. Workers should work on hooking up our Calendar resources, and I have a few city spots signed out. We have TONS of land to the east, let's get as much as we can!

After Aesthetics let's head to Literature and then rush the Great Library in Ohio. Once Texas pops a great scientist, put the scientists back to work and I think build an Academy in Ohio. We probably want to get Ohio and Texas (and the rest of the cities) up to the happy caps also - they're just also our best settler and worker cities so I had a few in there.

There's a barb warrior at Alabama, but I just double whipped an axeman who should take care of him. The worker wandering around there I had planned to go to the bananas but he had to run from the barb. The settler I think should go to the corn / marble site near America.

My thought was Missouri would be a good military pump. As far as workers go - generally don't put cottages on plains tiles - focus on grassland.

We probably need to put some thought into how we want to win this game. IMO at this point the game is won. We are #1 in food / prod and GNP, and have 3 times the population of any other civ and 2-3 tech lead on every other civ. My thought is that we head up through Civil Service to take Liberalism -> Nationalism and then go for gunpowder and rampage through everyone with drafted Janissarys (our Unique Unit which will slaughter anything that our opponents will field).
 

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Turn 116:
Monument in Cali finished, started Library
Founded New York, started Monument


Turn 117:
Finished Aesthetics
Started Code of Laws (to start pumping out Courthouses, it's getting expensive up in here)

Turn 118:
Trained Axeman in Missouri, started Worker (to go with our upcoming cities)

Turn 119:
Wan Kon wants to give us Hunting and 40 gold for Alphabet... yeah right.

Finished Lighthouse in South Dakota, started Barracks

Turn 120:
Texas finished ... Started Market
Finally killed those barbarians blocking my way in the northeast, time to get settlers out
Built Academy in Ohio

Turn 121:
Peace treaty with Lincoln ended
Montana finished Library, started on Barracks

Turn 123:
Worker finished in Missouri, started on Market

Turn 124:
Finished Code of Laws, wasn't sure if you wanted to keep Slavery.
Started Civil Service
Founded Florida, started Monument. Florida is sick :( Decided to go with granary instead


There was a barbarian blocking the way and then I fudged (directionally) with the two settlers you had building which is why it took them so long to get to their destinations. Sorry :(
 

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Okay we're at Turn 124, 225 AD. A few tweaks from the handoff

I swap research to Literature - it's a 3 turn tech, and we have a Great Engineer sitting around ready and able to rush the Great Library. The tech situation is... pleasing



Construction is out there but nobody that has it will trade it. I do ship Code of Laws to Lincoln (he's the only one without it) for Priesthood, Monotheism and 40 gold. That shows that Hammurabi has Monarchy out there too, but he won't trade it.

I whip the Monument in New York, and I notice that Wang Kon has stolen the rice that we were going to use at Florida.



With it in his first ring, we won't be able to take that most likely. It looks like in addition to the settler already in place up in the corn / marble area, we need 2 settlers urgently (to form our border with Korea) and another one to fill in. I check F1 and there are no settlers in queue. After a bit of checking, I will build one in Ohio once its market completes next turn and I also start one in Montana which I will whip next turn. We have 11 workers for our 10 cities, which is a bit lite, especially since that's soon to be 12-13 cities.

To give you an idea of our edge - Lincoln has 7 cities and Hammurabi has 6.

I hit end turn and Joao is quickly rising himself up the "First in line for a beatdown" queue.



Maine is founded and I notice that the corn is in the 2nd ring of an American city - we're going to have to go on the offensive here for culture.



Still even if we can't get the corn, the marble is nice. I do whip the settler at Montana, and I swap California to a worker, which I will whip next turn. I also apparently had swapped South Dakota to a settler last turn, so I go ahead and whip that too - it was just working junk coast and grass forest tiles. All that whipping dropped the time to complete Literature from 1 turn to 2, so I hire a scientist to compensate.

Turn 126 - Literature comes in and I rush the Great Library in Ohio. I set us on Drama, which will do a few things for us - it will let us build Theaters (and get our Globe Theater drafting camp set up), and also allow us to "build" Culture, which will be useful for our new cities so we don't have to waste time on a monument.



Also apparently I was wrong about everyone having Code of Laws - Pericles didn't have it and even better, he DOES have Monarchy, so I make this trade.



Turn 127 - I knew this was going to come along eventually. I think about it for awhile, and I accept. This gives us a turn of anarchy, though we do also complete the Great Library due to our engineer rush.



Turn 129 - After the settler in Ohio, I swap it to the National Epic. It is already making tons of GPP (great person points), so this will double that, meaning we'll definitely be cranking out the great people.

Mississippi founded in the (deep) South and I start it on a workboat.



Turn 131 - Drama comes in and I swap us over to Civil Service.

Turn 132 - I found Utah in the east, and now Hammurabi won't trade with us - when you mouse over the techs it gives us a nice surprise



Uh okay. Thankfully he's far away from us, so we don't really need to worry about that too much.

Turn 133 - we get a new great person in Ohio, and it's another Great Engineer :thumbsup: I save him for now. We could rush The Mausoleum, which will give us 50% longer golden ages. We probably will have at least 2 golden ages - 1 from a Great Person, and 1 from the Taj Mahal. The other thing we could do is hold him to rush the Taj itself.

I checked through here to see if there was any decent spot for a city site, but not really. So I pull back the settler in case we need him somewhere else.



Turn 134 - Our Hindu good buddy Wang Kon pops up with Construction!



Sure we'll take that! He's now up to +7 with us, which will continue to go up. We'll want to start building some catapults.

And Turn 135 is quiet and I end things here at 500 AD.

Things are going well of coures but there are a few issues still. #1 - we have been dead last in military for most of my turn and have made it all the way up to 5th!!! :lol:. That's okay, as long as nobody attacks us. Our Hindu brethern probably like us, but we definitely want to keep an eye on Joao (the other non-Hindus are further away)

Civil Service is due in 5turns. After that, we could go for Music (to let us build Culture in our cities and also get a free Great Artist if we're there first), or we could head towards Paper and Education. We definitely want to revolt to Bureaucracy when we get there, and probably Organized Religion too. That will let us build some more Hindu missionaries to convert our non-Hindu cities and give 25% towards building buildings (and wonders) in our Hindu cities.

We do need to get 6 theaters up so we can build the Globe Theater. Ideally we want to build it in our most food heavy city, and ideally it would be on the front of our first war. Most food heavy is probably New York, which has a 5f rice, 4f cows, and a bunch of flood plains. Putting it there would lend us towards attacking our good buddy Wang, though we could always go after Lincoln. We probably want to take out Joao as well, but we should have plenty of production to do that too.
 
Turn 135:
Hit enter

Turn 136:
Finished Axeman in Montana, started Theater
Finished Monument in Maine, started Theater

Turn 137-138: Just workers working

Turn 139:
Finished National Epic in Ohio, started Theater
Finished Market in Missouri, started Theater
Finished Hammam in California, started Theater
Was all set for Pature but then this happened:

Changed New York from Granary to Theater

Turn 140:
Civil Service finished
We advance to the Medieval area!
Revolt to Bureaucracy
Started work on Paper

Turn 141:
Government reestablished
Science is now all the way down at 20% because of upkeep

Turn 142:
Theater finished in Ohio, started on Hindu Temple
Catapault finished in South Dakta, started another one

Turn 142-144 (lost track of individual turns):
Theater finished in Missouri, started on catapault
Theater finished in Missouri, started on catapault
Work Boat finished in Mississippi, started on Theater
Hindu Temple finished in Ohio, started on Missionary
Barracks finished in Alabama, started on Theater
Axeman finished in Oregon, started on catapault
Theater finished in California, started on Axeman

Turn 145:
Finished Hindu Missionary in Ohio, started another one. I assume we want to get our own cities Hindu first? I send it to Alabama, but you'll have time to change course before he gets there.

Only one screen cap because that's all there was worth snapping. Your suggestions about globe theater and catapaults sounded good so that's what I went with. I also thought Paper->Education was a good idea since that will help us get to gunpowder faster.
 
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