Kerch strait crisis

[red_elk]

It's all over the news in Russia and Ukraine today. There is a confrontation between Russian and Ukrainian warships at Kerch strait, between Azov and Black Sea.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/25/europe/russia-ukraine-kerch-strait-intl/index.html

Both sides blame each other as usual, but what can be deduced from Russian and Ukrainian sources is that several Ukrainian navy ships approached Kerch strait bridge (a newly built bridge between Crimea and Russia mainland) and tried to pass through the strait into Azov Sea. According to Russia, they didn't follow rules of passage and tried to break through. Russia blocked the strait, Ukraine called for backup and several navy boats approached the bridge from Azov side.

One of Ukrainian boats was rammed by Russian coastal guard ship.
"Brace for impact!"

Russian aircraft patrolling bridge zone:

Latest news:
Ukrainian official sources claim that Russia is trying to capture Ukrainian ships, shots fired.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Russia is clearly a hostile actor in the world.

 

[red_elk]

Update: Both sides confirm that after standoff at the strait, three Ukrainian ships (two armored cutters and a tugboat) were captured by Russian coastal guard. There are several wounded, according to Russian side medical help was provided.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Russia is clearly a hostile actor in the world.

Russia is the good guys, it just that Ivan is a bad driver and has a lot of ramming "accidents"
Also its Ukraine fault, for getting sandwich between Ivans /s

 

[Kyriakos]

Kerch belongs to the Byzantine empire

 

[red_elk]

A couple of month ago, few Ukrainian boats passed through the strait without problems - and this was described in Ukrainian press as a triumphant event. This time something went wrong. Perhaps they tried to exercise right of passage without following rules set up by Russia.

Latest update - all three boats moved to Kerch. Ukrainian president requested parliament to declare state of military emergency.
Interesting side effect of military emergency would be the possible postpone of presidential elections in Ukraine, which are scheduled next year. Poroshenko approval rating is hopeless.

Kerch belongs to the Byzantine empire

Rome v2.0 was good, but it's out of support unfortunately. Upgrade to 3.0

 

[Красный Комиссар]

Elections Poroshenko can not win. A series of protests are brewing in the country:

- Dissatisfied with the lack of heating block roads in the capital
- dissatisfied with the introduction of duties on used cars imported from abroad block roads across the country
- To get a loan from the IMF, the government agreed to raise gas prices for the population.
- Journalists are killed in the country (last case - they spilled acid on Katerina Ganzyuk. They poured it so that she died)
- Even the neo-Nazis on whose support Poroshenko relied themselves are ready to overthrow him.

Martial law makes it possible to cancel the elections and ban any rallies, and protest leaders to be imprisoned as agents of the Kremlin.

Lists of people to be mobilized began to prepare at least 2 weeks ago. The Cabinet resolution "on approval of the procedure for the evacuation of certain categories of the population in the case of the introduction of the legal regime of martial law" was signed on November 7. All this is a pre-prepared provocation.

 

[Красный Комиссар]

For example: one of the many nationalist and pro-Western media in Ukraine. It is very well known in Russia as a hotbed of pro-Ukrainian trolls. Like most pro-Western media is not registered in Ukraine. (Server in San Francisco)
https://censor.net.ua/news/3099026/...htoby_ono_ne_meshalo_vyboram_poroshenko_video

Caricature of President Poroshenko. The inscription - Putin! Enter the troops. I do not know how to continue to lie to them! (voters)

Ps: Boats that participated in the provocations made at the plant which belongs to Poroshenko. He also owns all 3 weapons factories manufacturing firearms.

Pps: if his political opponents come to power (not even pro-Russian) Petya can go to jail. For a long time. With confiscation.

 

[red_elk]

Martial law makes it possible to cancel the elections and ban any rallies, and protest leaders to be imprisoned as agents of the Kremlin.

Yes, this seems to be a very convenient time. If Ukraine declares martial law, it will allow crackdown against opposition parties and leaders who otherwise will certainly win elections next year. I simply don't see other reasons to declare it. This declaration will only damage whatever remains of Ukrainian economy.

 

[Oerdin]

Putin is a terrorist and he deliberately creates these events by attacking neighbors hoping they will respond and justify him escalating even more. His goal is to capture a stretch of land connecting the Crimea with Russia.

 

[Silurian]

Putin is a terrorist and he deliberately creates these events by attacking neighbors hoping they will respond and justify him escalating even more. His goal is to capture a stretch of land connecting the Crimea with Russia.

You do know that they have a bridge across the Kerch strait which are quite narrow.

 

[Oerdin]

Yep, and there is a treaty giving them access rights which Russia completely ignores when it blocks the straights. It is Russia 100% in the wrong, as always, because your vile dictator keeps up his aggression.

 

[Silurian]

Yep, and there is a treaty giving them access rights which Russia completely ignores when it blocks the straights. It is Russia 100% in the wrong, as always, because your vile dictator keeps up his aggression.

What has Rees-Mogg got to do with this.

 

[red_elk]

So, Poroshenko indeed declared martial law state, but a limited one - without mobilization, curfews and all that wartime stuff.
He got quite strong internal opposition against this decision. People don't understand why after 5 years of tales about Russian military aggression, the time for martial law has come only now, several months before elections...

Russia should release or exchange the people, but keep the boats to discourage further provocations from Ukraine.

 

[Zkribbler]

Russia should release or exchange the people, but keep the boats to discourage further provocations from Ukraine.

After all, it kept the American armored personnel carriers it stole the second time it invaded Georgia.

 

[red_elk]

After all, it kept the American armored personnel carriers it stole the second time it invaded Georgia.

It's reasonable, I think. When Georgia invaded South Ossetia, weapons supplied to them by US could be considered as war trophies.
Besides, can you imagine Americans returning USSR tanks or SAMs captured in Vietnam?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

South ossetia is a recognised part of Georgian territory. You cannot invade your own territory, however Russia does seem to have a fondness for invading other sovereign, independent countries that it considers to be their territory, strange that.

The world should stop tolerating Russian aggression and punish it even more severely.

 

[Yeekim]

You do know that they have a bridge across the Kerch strait which are quite narrow.

Blocking Kerch strait pretty much means a naval blockade for Mariupol (major Ukrainian city)

A couple of month ago, few Ukrainian boats passed through the strait without problems - and this was described in Ukrainian press as a triumphant event. This time something went wrong. Perhaps they tried to exercise right of passage without following rules set up by Russia.

Considering that access to the Kerch Strait and Sea of Azov is supposed to be unimpeded for both sides according to previous treaty, the above paragraph speaks for itself.
Apparently, "rules set up by Russia" in practice are such that "couple Ukrainian boats actually passing once in a few months" is a major event.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

At this point Russia is a failed state, with a dictatorial strongman leading it into further ruin, who is obsessed with regaining previous territories it wouldn't even be able to adequately control.

Putin will lead us all into war.

 

[red_elk]

South ossetia is a recognised part of Georgian territory.

You should specify, recognized by who.
Chechnya is also a recognized part of Russia, Taiwan is recognized part of China and Kosovo is recognized part of Serbia.

You cannot invade your own territory

A country can invade its breakaway province.

Blocking Kerch strait pretty much means a naval blockade for Mariupol (major Ukrainian city)

Considering that access to the Kerch Strait and Sea of Azov is supposed to be unimpeded for both sides according to previous treaty, the above paragraph speaks for itself.
Apparently, "rules set up by Russia" in practice are such that "couple Ukrainian boats actually passing once in a few months" is a major event.

Ukraine can and could use the passage, as far as I understand. But right for unimpeded access doesn't mean you can ignore rules of passage and just go whenever and wherever you want.
During the incident, yes, the strait was blocked for Ukrainian and Russian civilian vessels, for less than a day.
The rules of passage are straightforward, a ship must only give a notification in 24 hours before a passage and confirm it in 4 hours in advance.

The Ukrainian navy boats didn't request a passage, only approached the bridge and tried to break through.