Kingdom Come: Deception (Game Thread)

[Takhisis]

The deleted posts? Above my paygrade. Marcher's weird voting? Not my issue.

My mileage really does vary.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Marcher votes I definitely cannot explain. If he fails to respond to your accusations perhaps he thinks you lack heft and he blew you off. I cannot account for that.

Let's talk about why Jo voted for me...what do you think?

 

[Arakhor]

Mid-Morning Tally
MarcherJovian (4): Topsecret, GamezRule, Golden1Knight, Takhisis
Golden1Knight (2): Timsup2nothin, MarcherJovian
Timsup2nothin (1): JohannaK

Not Voting (2): Pzelda, Csargo

 

[JohannaK]

Because I want you to go up against MJ. I figured his captive audience would come out soon enough, and if I didn't start voting you, maybe nobody would. It's that simple.

 

[pzelda]

First some mechanical things. Csargo getting blocked very much confirmed that he's not faking his role if he's town. Him trying to target me was an interesting decision, but I guess that wolves just played it safe and killed confirmed town. Personally, I expected Csargo to die tomorrow as a claimed doctor is always dangerous late game. It seems like nothing goes right for Csargo.

@pzelda, need your help here.

I'm not any master of wagonomics by any means but seeing Argon flipping traitor and not rebel might mean that he was some kind of independent. If that's true wolves probably would try to safe Jovian (TS voted off-wagon for a while and Csargo tried some changes). There's also a chance that this game has a culting mechanic and Argon was recruited by mafia. This mechanic is quite common in big games at Paradox Plaza. I think that with w/v wagons, Marcher would always get lynched. With w/independent Argon would get hammered. With w/w - the game can get stale. With v/independent - wolves don't really have any reasons to invest themselves in it and just need to place a low laying vote. So, I say it was either v/independent or w/w.
If that's true, there's probably another player capable of sending letters, who recruited LA earlier in the game.
Overall, I'm for lynching Marcher today, but based on his words and doubtful behaviour. I think that either TS or Csargo have a chance of being his buddies.
Ofc, If MJ's town, Golden Knight's always scum, because he would be using GameZ's letter to force a mislynch.

Good game @LordArgon BTW. I honestly do think you played well with the cards you were dealt, and appreciate your efforts for the town even if they were motivated differently than the rest of us.

It's nai, but I appreciate you making this shootout.

Tim, this is starting to sound a lot like Franklin's plot so either:
1. You're going down a similar road because you're a wolf.
2. Someone's framing you and/or Csargo.

Not sure which but we'll try to figure it out.

Yeah, not sure where's he heading today.

 

[pzelda]

Because I want you to go up against MJ. I figured his captive audience would come out soon enough, and if I didn't start voting you, maybe nobody would. It's that simple.

So, what are your reasons for suspecting Tim exactly? I get that you think they are w/w with Jovian, but do you find him suspicious on his own too?

 

[pzelda]

I could hammer Jovian, but I think that it's too early for that. Have some tier:

VVV - Gamez
VV - Csargo
V - Johanna, Tim
W - Topsecret, Takhisis
WW - Golden Knight
WWW - Jovian

Some significant changes:
I like that Johanna finally started pushing someone and that he's not afraid going for it. It feels like he woke up late as he usually does. There's finally visible some progression and I can see where he (or Csargo) started suspecting Tim.
Topsecret, I find him to be lackluster overall. His claim puts him little higher but he hasn't done much outside of trying to preserve himself. Also, it's possible that he tried to sway vote off Argon and Jovian.
Golden Knight - he's never with Jovian but I still don't find a lot of gold in his words. His push is mainly mechanical at this point.

Also, my bet's that exactly one claim's fake.

 

[JohannaK]

The PIS moment with Jovian's literacy, his constant WIFOM with 'new style' and 'wolf me', his hounding of good town folk like Raskol, you name it.

The PIS moment really sold it for me. I'm 99% certain they're both scum. I would happily vote for MJ, but what do we get from a runaway wagon? Make them compete.

Yesterday I made a short list of people I am fairly certsin are town and people who are not and thereby must be hiding wolves. These were LA, MJ, Tim, TS, and GK. We struck LA down, he was apparently 3P. Now we got 4 people for 3 wolves, presumably. If it were 4 wolves, today would be lylo.

My preference, already yesterday, was MJ. His strongest connection, for me, is Tim, abd while I mistrust GK more, if we go by the '1 literate wolf' theory, and it is MJ, then the 3rd wolf has to be TS.

In any case, we got one more mislynch and I think within this group is where we have the highest chance to strike at the most wolves, so that is where I will vote.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It's a funny thing, being caught in a mistake that looks wolfy.

Jo, one way or another you'll eventually discover I am town, and you will wonder how what appears to be "inside info" could possibly have happened in a way that is so misleading...and how you could have known. I'm going to tell you, not because I think there is any chance you will believe me, but just so it's available when the time comes.

When I got the letter I started looking for who was literate. I hinted, generally, that I needed to know. I asked more directly, in a general way. Then I got down to asking specifically since it still wasn't working. At some point G1K answered, so I knew I had someone, but it wasn't someone I really trusted so I kept asking. At some point that someone I had that I didn't trust morphed from G1K into Marcher, who I also didn't trust, and that's my bad. Marcher coincidentally being able to read, if that's even true, is an odd break.

But ask yourself this: If I had a scumbuddy that could read, why wouldn't I just quietly pass them the letter and find out what it said in the wolf chat? If I were a wolf I could have said on day three "hey someone passed me this letter" and either acted like I had read it, or pried out who could read, or whatever...already knowing what the letter said. You know me...if I was wolfing would I let a wild letter loose in the town not knowing what it said?

 

[Golden1Knight]

First some mechanical things. Csargo getting blocked very much confirmed that he's not faking his role if he's town. Him trying to target me was an interesting decision, but I guess that wolves just played it safe and killed confirmed town. Personally, I expected Csargo to die tomorrow as a claimed doctor is always dangerous late game. It seems like nothing goes right for Csargo.



I'm not any master of wagonomics by any means but seeing Argon flipping traitor and not rebel might mean that he was some kind of independent. If that's true wolves probably would try to safe Jovian (TS voted off-wagon for a while and Csargo tried some changes). There's also a chance that this game has a culting mechanic and Argon was recruited by mafia. This mechanic is quite common in big games at Paradox Plaza. I think that with w/v wagons, Marcher would always get lynched. With w/independent Argon would get hammered. With w/w - the game can get stale. With v/independent - wolves don't really have any reasons to invest themselves in it and just need to place a low laying vote. So, I say it was either v/independent or w/w.
If that's true, there's probably another player capable of sending letters, who recruited LA earlier in the game.
Overall, I'm for lynching Marcher today, but based on his words and doubtful behaviour. I think that either TS or Csargo have a chance of being his buddies.
Ofc, If MJ's town, Golden Knight's always scum, because he would be using GameZ's letter to force a mislynch.




It's nai, but I appreciate you making this shootout.



Yeah, not sure where's he heading today.

Just one thing, my pursuit of MJ started before the letter issue. That was just the icing on the cake. Also, if MJ gets lynched and flips town, lets not forget about GR since he is pressing MJ with the same zeal as I am. On the other side, if MJ flips wolf our suspect pool will get a lot narrower and thats something worth risking IMO

And if Csargo doesnt get NK next night we should really reconsider his claim.

 

[JohannaK]

But ask yourself this: If I had a scumbuddy that could read, why wouldn't I just quietly pass them the letter and find out what it said in the wolf chat? If I were a wolf I could have said on day three "hey someone passed me this letter" and either acted like I had read it, or pried out who could read, or whatever...already knowing what the letter said. You know me...if I was wolfing would I let a wild letter loose in the town not knowing what it said?

That's actually so reasonable, it never crossed my head. I'll think about it, but I'm still watching...

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That's actually so reasonable, it never crossed my head. I'll think about it, but I'm still watching...

I expect no less.

Now, add this to your thoughts. We seem to have mostly agreed that there is at least on reading wolf. I for one still like Gamez as town for quelling the chaos his letter caused, although the chaos keeps returning and he has been less good quelling the return engagements. So here's a thing:

If Marcher flips red...do we really know that he could read?

 

[topsecret]

I expect no less.

Now, add this to your thoughts. We seem to have mostly agreed that there is at least on reading wolf. I for one still like Gamez as town for quelling the chaos his letter caused, although the chaos keeps returning and he has been less good quelling the return engagements. So here's a thing:

If Marcher flips red...do we really know that he could read?

Depends on what he flips. For example, we kinda guessed the priest could read. We'll see I guess. If his name is <someone> the scribe, that's a pretty good indicator he could read, for example.

Just one thing, my pursuit of MJ started before the letter issue. That was just the icing on the cake. Also, if MJ gets lynched and flips town, lets not forget about GR since he is pressing MJ with the same zeal as I am. On the other side, if MJ flips wolf our suspect pool will get a lot narrower and thats something worth risking IMO

And if Csargo doesnt get NK next night we should really reconsider his claim.

When Tim and I were mafia in Franklin, we used that exact gambit to make everyone doubt Rask when he was a doctor. We kept him alive.

That's not to say it's impossible for him to be scum, just remember the mafia can be sneaky.

I could hammer Jovian, but I think that it's too early for that. Have some tier:

VVV - Gamez
VV - Csargo
V - Johanna, Tim
W - Topsecret, Takhisis
WW - Golden Knight
WWW - Jovian

Some significant changes:
I like that Johanna finally started pushing someone and that he's not afraid going for it. It feels like he woke up late as he usually does. There's finally visible some progression and I can see where he (or Csargo) started suspecting Tim.
Topsecret, I find him to be lackluster overall. His claim puts him little higher but he hasn't done much outside of trying to preserve himself. Also, it's possible that he tried to sway vote off Argon and Jovian.
Golden Knight - he's never with Jovian but I still don't find a lot of gold in his words. His push is mainly mechanical at this point.

Also, my bet's that exactly one claim's fake.

I dispute the fact that I haven't done much. Yesterday I practically had to call many to vote, which seemed like a replay of D2. And I was the one who asked for a tie (although I regretted it). I was here, and my main two suspects were MJ and LA. I'll both own up to it and admit I was wrong about LA (and could be wrong about MJ).

But enough about me. I agree with your read on Jo. And I am reasonably confident we either have a fake claim or a true claim that is mafia.

 

[Csargo]

I could hammer Jovian, but I think that it's too early for that. Have some tier:

VVV - Gamez
VV - Csargo
V - Johanna, Tim
W - Topsecret, Takhisis
WW - Golden Knight
WWW - Jovian

Some significant changes:
I like that Johanna finally started pushing someone and that he's not afraid going for it. It feels like he woke up late as he usually does. There's finally visible some progression and I can see where he (or Csargo) started suspecting Tim.
Topsecret, I find him to be lackluster overall. His claim puts him little higher but he hasn't done much outside of trying to preserve himself. Also, it's possible that he tried to sway vote off Argon and Jovian.
Golden Knight - he's never with Jovian but I still don't find a lot of gold in his words. His push is mainly mechanical at this point.

Also, my bet's that exactly one claim's fake.

Why do you have Gamez so high?

If TS is scum, then I think it's highly likely that Tims is scum with him. From how they've interacted in the thread. Think TS could fit almost anywhere, so it's a bit tricky.

I find Tims independently scummy for the stuff he was saying EoD yesterday.

Gamez/GK makes sense to me as well.

Jovian and GK/Gamez are mutually exclusive.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Depends on what he flips. For example, we kinda guessed the priest could read. We'll see I guess. If his name is <someone> the scribe, that's a pretty good indicator he could read, for example.

It was spewed, intentionally I presume, in my notification that I had received the letter. Typically, an illiterate stablehand in medieval village of BFB would pay the priest to read or write a letter...or in a larger town I suppose there would be a dedicated professional scribe. At any rate, I got my nose rubbed good in "too bad the priest is dead."

I find Tims independently scummy for the stuff he was saying EoD yesterday.

You find it scummy because it presumably doesn't jibe with you knowing that you are a villager that made an honest claim. Consider that I have no way of knowing that. Does questioning it still make me scummy?

 

[topsecret]

It was spewed, intentionally I presume, in my notification that I had received the letter. Typically, an illiterate stablehand in medieval village of BFB would pay the priest to read or write a letter...or in a larger town I suppose there would be a dedicated professional scribe. At any rate, I got my nose rubbed good in "too bad the priest is dead."

It didn't help that Visor probably got an important role, because he almost always dies.

If TS is scum, then I think it's highly likely that Tims is scum with him. From how they've interacted in the thread. Think TS could fit almost anywhere, so it's a bit tricky.

The reason I fit almost anywhere as a "scum partner" is because I don't really fit anywhere. Hard to have scum partners when you're town.

My alt wagons are G1K or (to a lesser extent) Tim. If anyone starts those two, I won't argue. But MJ's behavior yesterday, his method of defense (pointing at others for scummier), and my annoying failure to be decisive are what's bugging me. If Csargo and pzelda would agree on one of these alternate wagons, I'll switch. But otherwise, I don't think I wanna switch from MJ.

 

[topsecret]

Oh and Tak's somewhere in my POE; I'm beginning to agree with D1 Tim on his behavior.

 

[pzelda]

When I got the letter I started looking for who was literate. I hinted, generally, that I needed to know. I asked more directly, in a general way. Then I got down to asking specifically since it still wasn't working. At some point G1K answered, so I knew I had someone, but it wasn't someone I really trusted so I kept asking. At some point that someone I had that I didn't trust morphed from G1K into Marcher, who I also didn't trust, and that's my bad. Marcher coincidentally being able to read, if that's even true, is an odd break.

But ask yourself this: If I had a scumbuddy that could read, why wouldn't I just quietly pass them the letter and find out what it said in the wolf chat? If I were a wolf I could have said on day three "hey someone passed me this letter" and either acted like I had read it, or pried out who could read, or whatever...already knowing what the letter said. You know me...if I was wolfing would I let a wild letter loose in the town not knowing what it said?

You're making a fine point here. There's also a possibility of you being able to read and only doing the whole act to get some town cred. We know we have a way to check whether players are illiterate, but from what I know we don't have any way to catch literate players lying.

Why do you have Gamez so high?

If TS is scum, then I think it's highly likely that Tims is scum with him. From how they've interacted in the thread. Think TS could fit almost anywhere, so it's a bit tricky.

I find Tims independently scummy for the stuff he was saying EoD yesterday.

Gamez/GK makes sense to me as well.

Jovian and GK/Gamez are mutually exclusive.

I guess not for good enough reasons and should be one tier lower. I just was thinking about his claim and it suddenly stopped making sense as wolf role. I also like the way he outed Marcher yesterday.

Yeah, Jovian is both the scummiest player and a good info lynch.

 

[Csargo]

You find it scummy because it presumably doesn't jibe with you knowing that you are a villager that made an honest claim. Consider that I have no way of knowing that. Does questioning it still make me scummy?

I don't find you questioning my claim as scummy, because it's reasonable to question everything in a game about reading players and their motivations. You went about it subtly and indirectly, as if to gauge how interested the other players were before you committed. I find that to be scummy. Had you gone about it directly then I would not have had a problem with it.

I guess not for good enough reasons and should be one tier lower. I just was thinking about his claim and it suddenly stopped making sense as wolf role. I also like the way he outed Marcher yesterday.

I have no idea if it makes sense as a wolf role. I'd say Zack's role in the Mario game was almost exactly the same, minus the literacy mechanic.

Yeah, Jovian is both the scummiest player and a good info lynch.

I agree with this honestly.

 

[Csargo]

The reason I fit almost anywhere as a "scum partner" is because I don't really fit anywhere. Hard to have scum partners when you're town.

I'd say you don't fit with Gamez, but since you basically just let someone else decide your vote on D2, it gives me pause to say so definitively. This whole game it's felt like you've been coasting along, trying to stay in the middle of not being too serious or too bantery.