KK-01 – Fear of Flying

[Kikinit]

Ok.. things went pretty well.

Turn 100 (0) (375 BC)
I started by selecting Agriculture as our research as we have a number of resources that aren't being worked to their full potential because we haven't even researched this yet.
Research begun: Agriculture

IBT:
Seville grows: 4
Cumae's (JC) borders pop and the iron is within it's cultural borders, but not mined of course.

At the start of 350BC, Livy comes along and tells the world that we are the most cultured civilisation in the world. Must be the only thing that we are leading .

As you can see we have fallen to last place in the scoreboard. I hope it's just because we have been concentrating on building military. Although I think our starting location is a bit poor really. Rome will boost us substantially.

Turn 101 (1) (350 BC)
At this stage I declared by moving all our swordsmen (5), an axe, three archers and two chariots into JC's territories. Rome still has 4 defenders and we have a number of additional units on their way. I do not want to wait as we cannot let him get the iron connected.

IBT:
Madrid finishes: Axeman
Seville finishes: Barracks <-- This was whipped.

Turn 102 (2) (325 BC)
Madrid begins: Swordsman <-- Probably here as I whipped this guy to get the overflow into another one in the next turn. It worked well as I got 2 swordsmen in 2 turns, but as it wasn't a 2 pop whip, it left madrid unhappy for the rest of my turns.
Seville begins: Swordsman

I have moved our woodsman warrior to cut the road off outside Cumae.

IBT:
Madrid finishes: Swordsman

Turn 103 (3) (300 BC)
Madrid begins: Swordsman

Our troops arrive outside of Rome.

IBT:
Seville grows: 3
Warrior loses to: Roman Archer (0.24/3) <-- This is the guy outside Cumae. He did his job in cutting off the road and narrowly lost this battle.

Turn 104 (4) (275 BC)

The battle of Rome
Chariot promoted: Flanking I <-- For withdrawal chance
Chariot loses to: Roman Archer (2.10/3) Odds: 2%
Chariot promoted: Flanking I
Chariot defeats (0.88/4): Roman Archer Odds: 2% -- Unvelievable. He actually won!!
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman defeats (4.80/6): Roman Archer Odds: 30% -- Wow! What luck. This is making up for the absolute crappy luck I've been having in my SP games. Still got about 50 more battles like this to win to even it up.
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman defeats (4.86/6): Roman Archer Odds: 61% -- Now we are starting to get the edge.
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman loses to: Roman Archer (1.68/3) Odds: 69.7% -- Had to lose eventually.
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman defeats (2.76/6): Roman Archer Odds: 84.5% -- Woohoo.
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman defeats (4.20/6): Roman Archer Odds: 99.2%

And Rome is ours!

Buddhism has spread: Rome (Roman Empire)
Buddhism has spread: Rome
Confucianism has spread: Rome
Captured Rome (Julius Caesar)
Axeman promoted: Combat I
Archer promoted: City Garrison I <-- Romes initial defense
Archer promoted: City Garrison I <-- Romes initial defense

With the extra gold that we have received from the capture of Rome, I switched research up to 100% for a while. Hopefully we can capture the rest of his cities and keep it high for a while.

Turn 105 (5) (250 BC)
We have happy problems in our cities. We cannot grow them large enough as we don't have the resources or techs to keep our citizens happy. To help that, I start us on Priesthood to let us build temples and Monarchy so we can switch to Hereditary Rule and use MPs to keep the citizens happy.
Research begun: Priesthood
Research begun: Monarchy
Chariot promoted: Combat I <-- The chariot got 7 experience from that one battle!! I promoted him to combat I so he could take a medic I promotion as well. He can follow our troops and help them heal faster. He won't be able to win many battles anyway so I can't see a better use for him and with his 2 movement he can rush around to where he's needed.
Chariot promoted: Medic I

IBT:
Madrid finishes: Swordsman

Turn 106 (6) (225 BC)
Madrid begins: Swordsman
I start moving our troops out towards Cumae. I have chosen Cumae to make sure that JC doesn't have any chances to get the iron hooked up.

IBT:
Seville grows: 4

Turn 107 (7) (200 BC)

IBT:
Seville finishes: Swordsman

Turn 108 (8) (175 BC)
Seville begins: Buddhist Temple
Swordsman defeats (0.60/6): Roman Archer <-- This was extremely lucky. I actually selected the swordsman and meant to move him to another square and slipped and he attacked the roman archer that had left CUmae. The odds were in my favour, but not substantially.

IBT:
Madrid finishes: Swordsman

Turn 109 (9) (150 BC)
Madrid begins: Buddhist Temple
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman promoted: City Raider II <-- These two promotions are the lucky swordsman. I promoted him to heal him and let him move into the battle about to begin in Cumae.

IBT:
Barcelona grows: 3
Roosevelt comes asking for a trade. It seems fine to me so I say ok.

Turn 110 (10) (125 BC)
Cumae is ready to fall in the next turn or two. Our swordsmen will be city raider 2, cultural defense is only 20% (rome was 40%) and the archers are not city garrison I promoted so that should make the odds a lot better than at Rome.

Keep an eye on this archer heading towards Barcelona. Barcelona has a swordsman garrisoned and another will reach it next turn so it's not a threat, but best to take him out before he pillages something.

Rome will be out of resistance in 1 more turn too. Hopefully it will not take too long to add to our gpt with it's size and resources. The gems and eventually ivory are also sorely needed happy resources.

All in all, a satisfying turnset. As you can see from the last pic, we have climbed from last in score to 3rd with the taking of Rome.

The save:

 

[sooooo]

Excellent work!

Swordsmen rock.

 

[Kikinit]

Post-turn analysis:
Cumae should fall pretty easily and then we can go and take out JC's last city (or is it?). There are a few more swordsmen on route to Rome and once there is enough we can march.

I have started building temples in a few towns in an effort to improve the happiness situation. Monarchy will be in 12 turns or longer as we will not be able to maintain research at 100% I would think. I think this will be useful to grow our cities bigger.

We need a few more workers and settlers too when we have finished this war although the settlers may have to wait until we can afford more towns. Let's see what our finances are like after Rome is out of resistance.

Here's a snapshot of the info screen to show where we stand at the moment.

We really are a long way behind Montezuma and will have to work hard to get ourselves back into this game.

Roster:
-- Kikinit -- Just finished
-- Ralph_Jackson -- Up
-- mike_p -- On deck
-- sooooo
-- Talamane
.

 

[mike p]

Good work. We are now first in population. Which means our commerce and industry and agricultural production should all rise soon as well.

Did we ever finish alphabet? If we could get Code of Laws for peace from Caesar, that might be better than taking his last city now. But Cumae first, of course. I see the need for agriculture, but it would be better to trade for it and start going deeper into the tech tree.

I'd also like to pick up sailing if we don't have it already. A galley should open up a few nice city spots to the northeast, bypassing the moutain peaks that block our expansion. We really should make it a priority to beat the AI to those spots.

I haven't looked at the save, but if we could get a couple of scientists working in Madrid, we could get an Academy going and boost science considerably. Though we might want to start building a Wonder or two in Madrid instead. Or keep pumping out units - If Saladin doesn't have bronze or iron we might want to roll him over as well.

Ralph, if you can do all of these in the next ten turns, then you're the man!

*** Edited to add:

I just looked at the save. Madrid's unhappiness will go away next turn when the temple is built. Plus one of our gems come online. By the time Madrid will grow twice, we'll have ivory as well. Which means our happiness is not really an immediate issue. (And there may still be a "We resent your cruel oppression" penalty that will wear away - I forgot to check that.) So I suggest stop with the monarchy now and pick up alphabet ASAP.

We're six turns away from Alphabet if we switch to it and can build the Oracle in Madrid within 10 or 11 turns. Let's grab alphabet, trade for as many techs as we can and then use oracle to grab whatever seems best at the time. And make Caesar sue for peace with techs.

We may have an opportunity to grab a whole bunch of techs over a short period of time, I say we make that the priority. First to alphabet + Oracle means we take the tech lead. With the tech and population lead, we'll be cruising.

Roosevelt will be settling on the island to our east shortly. If we saw the galley coming we could have closed borders off and kept him out - not critical though. But it means sailing is less of a priority for now, we can still expand overland. May as well use those swords while they still dominate!

The only Wonder built so far in the world is Stonehenge! Opportunity for us.

Also, it might be time to build a settler and fill in the hole between Madrid, Cumae and Barcelona. And maybe use one chariot to get a look at what's going on in the south, our maps are horribly outdated.

 

[Kikinit]

The alphabet, Oracle plan seems to be a good one to try. Seems to be quite late to go for the Oracle, but it's a good one if we can get it.

 

[mike p]

Yes, it late on the Oracle. Don't be afraid to whip it to completion. Some of the AI may have a head start on us already.

If you can get Code of laws in trade, we can get Civil Service from the Oracle.

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

Okey Dokey,

Looks like some cracking work Kikinit.
I will examine the save - post any questions tonight and play / post tomorrow.

I will follow the Oracle - Alphabet route suggested .

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

So here we go….

Basic Strategy

Switch research to Alphabet so we can extort a Tech out of JC for Peace – with the optimistic aim of getting Code of Laws
Simultaneously build the Oracle with the aim of doing a very backdoor Unusual CS Slingshot

Military Strategy

If we are going to get a Tech out of JC for peace we really need to put him under pressure.. but simultaneously do it quickly so we have a chance of snagging the Oracle under our Masterplan above. So

There are more than enough troops next to Cumae Yellow group to take out the city so other troops will as quick as possible move South (Red Groups) to tackle the city we can just see the culture of.

The Patrolling Archer of JC’s will be taken care of by the Axeman (Pink Group) about to complete in Barcelona.

Turn 1

Switch research and start building Oracle in Madrid. Swordsmen by Cumae have moved so can’t attack this turn but take the City raider Promotion ready for Cumae.

Turn 2

Pink Axeman Despatches archer

Rome comes out of resistance allowing most of its garrison to move south as part of red group and starts on a temple for happiness.

We capture Cumae without loss and just for fun it’s Confucianism’s holy city

Turn 3-5
Troops in red group March South as we wait for Alphabet to come in.

Turn 6 Alphabet comes in but JC is not playing ball

So now the trick here is not to give up just because he has said no. Instead turn up the heat on him and that is what red group were sent south to do.


Turn 7

We take out the first Archer

JC is still not being co-operative so we need to take down his city (which ironically is the Taoism holy city). Now if you want a CIV to give you a tech you mustn’t antagonise him too much. JC is now following Taoism and if I raise his holy city I expect relations to get so bad that no way will he give me a Tech so instead I capture Neapolis even though it will be a strain on our exchequer as if we are going to complete our strategy it is necessary.

And yes JC is now willing to give us COL.

Note the improvement in relations just from the Peace Treaty even though it costs him COL.

Now here things are so close to achieving our strategy I did make what might have been a slightly “rash” decision in chopping a forest to complete the Oracle. Now we may regret the Health drop later but I would have kicked myself not to have completed the slingshot from here.

And Yes

So end of 10 turns

We have done what we set out to do, we have

1. Penned JC into 1 last city for future extortion purposes
2. Effectively snagged COL and Civil Service just for researching Alphabet
3. And just for good measure captured two holy cities (pretty lucky)

Forgive me for not writing about next objectives, I will post my views tomorrow.

 

[sooooo]

WOW, those were some amazing turns. An excellent plan by Mike P and very skillfully caried out Ralph. Many would have been willing to accept a cheaper tech from Caesar when he initially turned us down for CoL. And we captured two holy cities?

 

[Kikinit]

Um.. what can I say. Flawlessly executed an awesome plan. .

Alphabet, Code of Laws and Civil Servce, 2 holy cities and the oracle in 10 shots. That will take some beating.

 

[Kikinit]

Off-topic:
To those who might be interested, SGOTM for civ4 is being kicked off. Worth looking into I must say.
.

 

[Talamane]

Sweet! Nicely done.

 

[Kikinit]

Ok.. next up our master strategist mike_p .

Roster:
-- Kikinit
-- Ralph_Jackson -- Just finished
-- mike_p -- Up
-- sooooo -- On deck
-- Talamane
.

 

[mike p]

Got home after a long night and saw that I should have told Ralph to get a domination victory too in the last 10 turns since he did everything I asked him to and then some! I love it when a plan comes together.

So I figured a run a quick and easy 10 peaceful builder turns.

125AD: Finish up Ralph's last turn by whipping out a library in Seville and switching to lighthouse in Madrid. Seville has two clams, a fresh water lake, and irrigated wheat, so we might want to start pushing some great people out from there.

175AD: A barbarian warrior approaches Rome from the space between Rome and Cumae. I move a chariot over to bust up the fog of war, and a swordsman from Rome to take out the warrior. Monty and Roosevelt both convert to Buddhism. So I open borders with Monty trying to improve our relationships and help out with trade. I also dial up Roosevelt now that he's pleased and ask him if he'd mind sharing his knowledge of piling rocks on top of each other. He gladly gives us Masonry. OK so it ain't Civil Service, but I managed to get us a free tech too!

400 AD Finish Monarchy - once the 5 turns are up from our switch to Bureaucracy are up I plan on revolting to hereditary rule and end our happiness problems for a while. Our Swordsman kills the barbarian warrior and that's all the combat I did this turn set.

Money is our biggest problem right now, so I set research to currency for the extra trade routes and with the lighthouse finished in Madrid, I put our new knowledge of Masonry to work by begining the Great Lighthouse in Madrid - 2 extra trade routes in our coastal cities means more commerce.

250 AD - We need to get the borders expanded in Cumae and Neapolis, so I revolt to no state religion. All of our holy cities now get 5 culture per turn, but we lose the happiness bonus for our state religion, which is no big deal now that we are in Hereditary Rule.

300 AD - Neapolis and Cumae expand and I send the workers to Cumae to hook up the marble and pasture the cows.

375 AD - We're one turn from completing the Great Lighthouse in Madrid. Seville is building an archer because it will need it for happiness. We'll finish a couple of courthouses shortly and gain a bunch more trade routes, which should help the economy a lot. I also see that Caesar has Currency and while he won't give it up, I do shake him down for 70 gold, just because we can.

As I see it, we need to do the following over the short term:

1. Finish up courthouses in our higher maintainence cities.
2. Start using specialists in Madrid and Seville to get the great people flowing.
3. Build more workers - Rome needs a hill mined and a whole bunch of cottages. Seville could use some mines. Cumae and Neapolis both need a lot of basic infrastructure.
4. One more settler to fill in the gap between Barcelona, Madrid, and Cumae.

We also might want to think about taking out Saladin. He still doesn't have Iron Working and we have a bunch of promoted swordsmen. I think our economy will be growing enough absorb him. I didn't do a thing with our armies this turn set, but we ought to start thinking about mobilizing them soon. If you feel up for a little warmongering sooooo, then have 'em.

Also if we do have anymore happiness problems, we can switch back to a state religion for +1 happy face, which might be better than the culture right now since all of our borders have popped.

As for techs after currency, let's start moving towards Guilds and our UU - though we don't have to beeline directly there if there's other stuff that people think is also important.

View attachment 124414

 

[Kikinit]

Good stuff mike. I agree that we should make an effort to get our UU happening as early as possible to make the most of it's power. I've never used them before but with 2 first strikes and immunity to first strike they should be great against fortified archers or crossbowmen not to mention the +50% vs. melee. I would guess that they would only have difficulty against longbowmen and then only when they are fortified in a city. A few catapults along should deal with that threat.

I can't believe that the AI has been so unlucky with iron and copper. It's giving us a huge advantage at the moment. And judging by the lack of wonders, they must be lacking marble and stone too.

I guess no-one needs reminding, but we are afraid of flying so we have to keep on with our aggressive ways to win by some way other than space. We also could start thinking about sending our conquistadors to the new world. We have raging barbarians and I hate to think about what the barbarians have been up to. We are likely to come up against some big cities. Can't wait .

I guess what I am saying is that we should go for guilds as well as getting astronomy for galleons.

Roster:
-- Kikinit
-- Ralph_Jackson
-- mike_p -- Just finished
-- sooooo -- Up (feeling like some warring action?)
-- Talamane -- On deck
.

 

[sooooo]

OK, I've got it and I'll probably play tonight. I looked at the save and it seems Saladin has iron in his land but lacks the knowledge to see it, so unless anyone objects I will go to war on my turnset. We have enough troops to take out his closest two cities quickly, then I will try my best to take out his city near the iron, which will leave Saladin only with his capital. My vote for the next tech to research is Construction for catapults and War Elephants. It's not on the way to guilds, but conquistadors need catapults alongside them anyway.

 

[mike p]

I like war elephants.

The only other tech detour I was thinking about was polytheism to literature for Great Library now that we have marble. That might actual be a short cut rather than a detour. But I played my turns after being up for about 24 hours, so after some sleep, and more coffee, I realize I may not have been thinking to too clearly. But if we're going to try to steal this wonder late, we'd probably have to get started now. Monty is willing to trade Polytheism, but I didn't feel it was worth giving him Code of Laws for. Then again, once we've finished Currency, it might be OK to send him CoL for Polytheism and cash, if he's got gold to give.

A few more random thoughts.

Let's wipe Saladin out. I'm still a little ticked we didn't get Hinduism - so the Holy City is rightfully ours, isn't it? After that, we might just want to turtle up until Astronomy and take over the new world. We could even start being nice to people and go for Diplomatic victory.

As soon as we get Optics, I like to build two caravels, sending one east and one west to meet in the middle for the circumnavigation bonus.

We have the Confucian and Taoist holy city and we might want to spend a few turns with each as a our state religion to do some religious scouting. We also might want to convert to a religion to align ourselves with a faction of Civs. While going back to Buddhism sounds tempting, we might be better off helping out all of the crappy Taoist civs and seeking to contain the Big Bad Buddhists (Monty and FDR).

Or, more succinctly, we need a longer term strategy for diplomacy and by extension, our religion. Doesn't much matter to me what it is, as long as we're all pulling in the same direction here.

Not sure exactly how I left the specialists in Madrid and Seville, but I think we should have a priest at work in Madrid to try to get a Great Prophet to add to either Neapolis or Madrid (depending on which religion is bigger - probably Buddhism, but Taoism has been spreading rapidly.) Seville should get two scientists going so our second great person can provide an Academy. These are strategies that will take longer than one turn set to implement, so again, we should all be on the same page here.

No matter which way we go, good luck and have fun with it.

 

[sooooo]

My first turns of NOT-flying are complete. I can confirm that I did not research flight or win by spaceship in my turns, so in that respect they were a success .

Oon the inherited turn I move our troops towards Saladin. This makes some of our cities unhappy, so I convert back to Buddhism. I make the specialist changes recommended by Mike.

400AD: The Great Lighthouse completes on my first turn, and Madrid starts a worker. We don't need any more troops to deal with Saladin. I declare war 1 turn earlier than I would do normally to capture a worker from Saladin.



We advance on Damascus and Medina and turn up science to 100% in anticipation of plundering some money. Currency is reduced by a turn.

425AD: Barcelona finishes its courthouse and I start a library. With 3 cottages it seems to be a commerce city. Cumae starts a courthouse and Seville's courthouse is (3 pop). Now for the interesting part:

At Damascus, a CR2 sword loses to a CD1 archer at 60%, but two other swords win their battle and take the city.



450AD: Currency finishes and I start Polytheism (1 turn at 100% science). I go with Mike P's plan because his plan was rather successful last time . Plus we don't need any more troops (or have time to build them) for the war with Saladin. Madrid and Seville start workers and Neapolis a courthouse.

475AD: Polytheism comes in, start Literature. At Medina, at CR3 sword wins (73%) but a CR2 sword loses (64%). A CR2 sword wins, but I delay capture with the final chariot because I would probably have lost the city next turn. The stack near Neapolis ambushes an archer/warrior/settler stack of saladin's, giving us another free worker. Drop science to 90% (Lit still due in 2).

500AD: Madrid starts an axeman (to fill a gap before the GL starts). A forest near Madrid is pre-chopped for when the GL is started. Seville starts the Parthenon because there doesn't seem to be anything else it needs right now. There are a number of forests nearby which need chopping anyway for mines. The swordsmen take Medina.



520AD: We advance on Baghdad.

540AD: Montezuma declares war on Saladin! Thanks Buddy, but there's not much plunder left for you. Roosevelt asks for Polytheism. I agree because he is buddhist and it's a low-beaker tech. Literature comes in and we start on Metal Casting. The Great Library is due in 7 turns, which is reduced to 6 when the pre-chopped forest is chopped. We get a great scientist in Madrid despite expecting a prophet. I use it to build an academy. The 2 scientists at seville are changed to a priest.

At Baghdad, we lose a CR2 sword at favourable odds, but our other sword and two axes win their battles and the city is taken under Monte's nose.



560AD and 580AD: Our unhurt troops move towards Mecca to see if there is a chance of taking the city once Monte has splattered his troops on the defences.

Final turn (600AD) - one axeman reaches Mecca. It sees the following defences:



We have:
1 axeman adjacent
1 sword 2 squares away
2 swords 4 squares away

Montezuma has:
1 spear and 1 chariot adjacent
1 jaguar and 2 chariots 2 squares away

A view of our empire:



The Great Library is due in 3 turns, as is Metal Casting. I did not build a settler to fill in our gap because we can only barely handle Saladin's cities. We have many more workers now (I built 3 and captured 3). Our road network is poor though still.

As you can see, 4 other civs have Taoism, including Montezuma now. We should consider converting. Saladin is willing to talk for peace, but I think we should see how Monty's troops fare at Mecca.

P.S: I would be interested in a SGOTM.

The save:

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

Excellent work.

Feels like we are motoring now; as we are not building a spaceship how about a push for an early conquest....

We are on the front foot and definitely in control of the game.

Anybody feeling like taking this team into SGOTM Land, Kikinit are you up for leading us into that one?

Ralph

 

[Kikinit]

Ralph, I am definitely up for leading a team into SGOTM. Not sure about the size of the teams they are going to have and they aren't calling for teams just yet. It will take a bit of time commitment by all the players involved so some people may shy away from joining. Who else here would be interested? I see soooo has already thrown his name in.

Back to this game. Good stuff soooo. . Welcome to SG land. My last turn in this game was my first turns where I had to attack someone. You managed to take three cities and set us up for another in your first set.

We really are getting into a good position now. We need to get Mecca so we can have control of 4 (if I count correctly) of the religious cities. That will be quite handy and we should start to try and churn out a few prophets to make sure we've got all the religious wonder buildings for the gold income.

Roster:
-- Kikinit -- On deck
-- Ralph_Jackson
-- mike_p
-- sooooo -- Just finished
-- Talamane -- Up
.