Yea standard. Synagogues and Aestheticism (I think thats the name of food per pop) are both good choices, but I'd say mastery is better. It also gives extra production to engineers which I find really important, whenever I just spam science and I end up inventing too many things and being unable to build them all. Extra culture on artists and writers is also nice.
Korea
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peterw1987
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IMO, the most ideal belief for korea after playing a lot is:
god of wisdom pantheon, mastery and synanogue follower,
ceremonial burial(bonus culture and faith everytime GP expended), because korea can generate the most GP compared to any other civ. or
mandate of heaven( capital 20% yield when golden age, because you always want to be in golden age when playing korea)
for the enhancer, i think stronger and cheaper prophet is good enough, since you wont be spreading your religion, and it synergyze well with ceremonial burial.
god of wisdom pantheon, mastery and synanogue follower,
ceremonial burial(bonus culture and faith everytime GP expended), because korea can generate the most GP compared to any other civ. or
mandate of heaven( capital 20% yield when golden age, because you always want to be in golden age when playing korea)
for the enhancer, i think stronger and cheaper prophet is good enough, since you wont be spreading your religion, and it synergyze well with ceremonial burial.
peterw1987
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ye
this is also my problem when playing korea. i dunno when to build my military, because i have too many good building to build because my science going too fast. while playing other civ, you will have many times when your city have no building to build, but never with korea.
this is also my problem when playing korea. i dunno when to build my military, because i have too many good building to build because my science going too fast. while playing other civ, you will have many times when your city have no building to build, but never with korea.
I'd get Sainthood as the enhancer and to the glory of god for your reformation, mass that great person synergy. Synagogues is ok, if you want to try set a world record for fastest science win that is probably how you do it. But I usually go with diligence or aestheticism, these will really help your cities develop while working all those specialists. Mandirs is also great if your land has a lot of food and you expect to be spied on (you will). I like culture pantheons when I play tradition. Wisdom provides early game science, which you don't really need, and late game faith, which is nice to have but your late game is already amazing.
Korea is also one of the few civs I don't mind missing religion with, its late game is already so powerful you will usually be just fine.
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peterw1987
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Finally win my first deity Science Victory in turn 256. I got insanely good start with mostly desert tile (with hill gold luxury, and some riverside farm,sheep, marble and stone)
I rush stonehenge and Mausoleum of Halicarnus first. I got my spirit of desert pantheon, ceremonial burial, mastery,mandir,sainthood,to the glory of god.
This religion combo with Korea 50% GP point during golden age is insane. Everytime I expend a GP, I got a very huge bonus.
I was ahead of everyone 2 era, and almost 5-8 Social Policies.
The game is too peaceful thou, dunno why. I am very friendly with my neighbors denmark ,indo, and inca throughout the entire game.
I always try to accept every trade they initiate, and I always spare one of my vote for their world congress resolution. I also always vote for Inca as host, while actually I should become host if I want, because Denmark and Indonesia vote for me.
The only one that DOW on me is Spain, which later attack me with a lot of naval unit, but I easily repel them with a dozen of hwacha.
Gonna try China next whether they are better than Korea for Science Victory.
I rush stonehenge and Mausoleum of Halicarnus first. I got my spirit of desert pantheon, ceremonial burial, mastery,mandir,sainthood,to the glory of god.
This religion combo with Korea 50% GP point during golden age is insane. Everytime I expend a GP, I got a very huge bonus.
I was ahead of everyone 2 era, and almost 5-8 Social Policies.
The game is too peaceful thou, dunno why. I am very friendly with my neighbors denmark ,indo, and inca throughout the entire game.
I always try to accept every trade they initiate, and I always spare one of my vote for their world congress resolution. I also always vote for Inca as host, while actually I should become host if I want, because Denmark and Indonesia vote for me.
The only one that DOW on me is Spain, which later attack me with a lot of naval unit, but I easily repel them with a dozen of hwacha.
Gonna try China next whether they are better than Korea for Science Victory.
Korea has been in need of a slight nerf on GP% bonus for some time. I'm going to reduce it for the next version.
peterw1987
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I must agree on this one. But even thou with this OP UA, I still wonder why not many people realize Korea truly a powerhouse, even for domination with that huge science lead. Cultural with the fast GP generation. Diplomatic is not so good thou.
This strategy works with a lot of civs, you don't need Korea's +50% to do it. I'm was actually in the process of collecting some savegames to try and show how broken great person spam is right now. Arabia does it better IMO
I hope you don't nerf Korea too much. If you want to slow down Korea's wins (which I don't think is a bad idea) make permanent golden age harder to get, or up the costs of mid game policies and technologies. Or nerf to the glory of god. My last game I had God of All as my pantheon, never built temples, reached like 19 faith per turn in Modern, and bought a great person every 5 turns since industrial without issue (and a few inquisitors too). If you stack all the GP synergies you get more culture than faith you spent.
Aesthetics could use a look as well
peterw1987
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By turn 256, i have buy all great person with glory of god reformation.
Next scientist,engineer,merchant,writer at 25000 faith(4 time each). Next Musician and artist at 12000 faith( 3 time each), i have buy great diplomat and general 2 times each too. Great prophet spawn stopped at 6000 faith.
Edited: engineer 5 times, since i still buy it when the game almost ending. When i finish, i still have 2 great engineer idling.
tu_79
Deity
I think that caused the cooldown on faith purchases. It could be increased, but I hope not. I like to have a peaceful way to win. It's AI job to realize that I am winning and try to stop me. As long as I need to keep an AI on eye to stop it if it's winning me.
peterw1987
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It is funny when three of my opponent is cocky that they will soon achieve diplomatic victory. I forget what is their line.maybe something like " with my silver tounge,the world hegemony will be mine."
And a few turn later, i already achieve my science victory. I only need 5 turn from signalling my apollo project to launch all 5 parts needed. I already save 15000 gold to rush buy all the spaceship part immediately.
Legen
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The 50% GP during golden ages was formerly from Brazil's old UA, and it was very powerful for that civ despite the lack of Seowon's GP bonuses. There were similar talks as well about perma golden ages and such, and the cost of golden ages were tweaked to make perma GA harder. Glory of God also got nerfed later, with a 15-turn cooldown for great people not unlocked through policies, and 5-turn for those unlocked.
After seeing this part of the UA also remaining strong on another civ, and one that isn't as oriented towards golden ages as Brazil was, I think the UA is what needs to be tuned, not the rest of the game. Glory of God, for instance, isn't clearly better than Crusader Spirit or Jesuit Education for most other civs, including those able to produce a lot of great people.
Korea was already a solid civ before receiving the golden age bonus, so a nerf shouldn't be too hard on them.
Two changes I would suggest that I think would balance Korea (and be good for the game in general) would be removing the golden age points from tradition's writer policy and lower the yields on glory of god. I shouldn't be able to ignore faith generation yet buy great people endlessly, nor should I be able to achieve permanent golden age without getting any length boosts and not using artists. I use the term broken carefully, but I do think great person spam is broken.
Sejong is really dependent on terrain or his pantheon for culture, this really hurts your consistency. If you don't get a strong pantheon early wonders and religion become difficult. And I'm winning super fast science games with other civs, including India, Byzantium and Morocco. I do think there are some balance problems here (I shouldn't be winning via science before the UN is ever completed), Korea capitalizes on them well, but so do many others
I would argue if you are playing tall and spamming great people, if you pick Jesuit over Glory you are just playing poorly. The only reason I wouldn't pick it is if it someone else did before me, or I desperately needed Defender of the Faith.
Sejong is really dependent on terrain or his pantheon for culture, this really hurts your consistency. If you don't get a strong pantheon early wonders and religion become difficult. And I'm winning super fast science games with other civs, including India, Byzantium and Morocco. I do think there are some balance problems here (I shouldn't be winning via science before the UN is ever completed), Korea capitalizes on them well, but so do many others
This is an effect of total boosting everything. Yes, unlocking new policies is fun, discovering techs is fun, but right now all buildings provide os much yield and players are snowballing so hard, it jumped the shark I believe. You go for culture win - you usually just have to wait for ideologies to open, you go for science, you know 50-80 turns earlier you won and just have to grind that Apollo. Domination? At certain point if you made proper policy/religion choices, each city conquered makes you stronger.
And that hurts so many civs, who have late UU. People are ranting against England recently, but ManOWar opportunity window is quite tiny and difference is not that noticeable when everyone has huge army. Same goes for Musketeers, Carolean, Melah Sefari (or whatever Ethiopia UU is named), Minuteman and so on.
Thats why Pictish warriors, Immortals and Legions or Jaguars are so strong. Early on, your UU is like 50% of your army, later on, it's just few additional units. Three Pitcish warriors can wreak havoc and get you religion. Try doing that with Three Musketeers (pun intended
). Ok, I highjacked topic. My point was - Korea is fine. And if they get nerfhammered, there are plenty of other civs in line first (hello Aztecs).
This is an effect of total boosting everything. Yes, unlocking new policies is fun, discovering techs is fun, but right now all buildings provide os much yield and players are snowballing so hard, it jumped the shark I believe. You go for culture win - you usually just have to wait for ideologies to open, you go for science, you know 50-80 turns earlier you won and just have to grind that Apollo. Domination? At certain point if you made proper policy/religion choices, each city conquered makes you stronger.
And that hurts so many civs, who have late UU. People are ranting against England recently, but ManOWar opportunity window is quite tiny and difference is not that noticeable when everyone has huge army. Same goes for Musketeers, Carolean, Melah Sefari (or whatever Ethiopia UU is named), Minuteman and so on.
Thats why Pictish warriors, Immortals and Legions or Jaguars are so strong. Early on, your UU is like 50% of your army, later on, it's just few additional units. Three Pitcish warriors can wreak havoc and get you religion. Try doing that with Three Musketeers (pun intended
New systems and gameplay mechanisms = more chances for yields. That's accurate, and is by no means an indication that anything has jumped anything, shark or otherwise. It simply means that a pass on costs needs to be made. The system can accommodate such changes, always has, always will.
G
Ok, sorry, jumped the shark was maybe wrong words and I forgot you already said in other topic you're looking into it. What I meant was - when you add additional yields to buildings (and we've seen such changes recently - aqueducts, diplo buildings), the effect that I described above is happening. It's "fun" to stay long in era, especially if you have your UU there. And I don't have many numbers to support that, but I feel length of eras is shorter and shorter nowadays.
Legen
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The two suggestions are sound, as Korea get extreme benefits from both: generate great people to get golden ages faster, then use the golden ages to get great people faster, all while generating yields for more great people. Moreover, both scale with era, which Korea can get ahead of most civs. I do think that Glory of God may only need to have the faith yield removed, rather than a general reduction, as the faith part act as a refund when buying great people.
Jesuit is clearly better in a wide empire, especially if they can produce extra faith from that, like The Celts. A better comparison for the "tall and spamming great people" may be Crusader Spirit, as some civs can befenit a lot from just puppetering everything, spam great people, and still prefer Crusader over Glory. Though, Korea rarely plays like that.
On a note, the Seowon provides +2
, which means Korea doesn't entirely neglect faith production if they forego shrines and temples. Nevertheless, it's outclassed by Glory of God.@Legen
Completely dropping the faith on glory sounds good to me, you can actually gain faith by buying GP if you have Piety's cost reduction. I agree Jesuit is an awesome belief, just not for this situation.
@infidel88
I think there has been some inflation in yields, but sounds like G is on it. The balance issue I have is the culture snowball tradition->aesthetics can do. I'm glad to see @peterw1987 has had the same experience I have, even on Deity you can end up 6-8 policies ahead of everyone else by focusing on expending great people in a small empire, and by playing a civ with extra science or opening rationalism extremely fast you can easily take a tech lead later. I'm surprised more people haven't noticed it
Completely dropping the faith on glory sounds good to me, you can actually gain faith by buying GP if you have Piety's cost reduction. I agree Jesuit is an awesome belief, just not for this situation.
@infidel88
I think there has been some inflation in yields, but sounds like G is on it. The balance issue I have is the culture snowball tradition->aesthetics can do. I'm glad to see @peterw1987 has had the same experience I have, even on Deity you can end up 6-8 policies ahead of everyone else by focusing on expending great people in a small empire, and by playing a civ with extra science or opening rationalism extremely fast you can easily take a tech lead later. I'm surprised more people haven't noticed it
tu_79
Deity
I wonder if this strength is due to not being threatened in a long time, thanks to being small.
