Kulkos HOF Attempts

[Kulko]

Since COTM seems to be on hold and PTW isnt delivered together with the steam version of C3C I thought I start up with a few HoF Games.

Targets:
Small 20K Monarch (Partially Completed (9th))
Tiny Conquest Chieftain (Trying for the fun of it)

 

[Kulko]

reserved for later?

 

[Kulko]

So my first target has been a few 20k games, mainly because I never done that before. I first tried a few DG starts but realized soon, that I do not know how to do this best, so I restarted on Monarch, for training purposes.

I played Byzanz vs Japan, Mongol and Arab
I started Mapfunder and he needed 3000 Maps to find 7 fits (maybe I have been too restrictive?)

4 of them looked promising, and after my experiences with DG I saved the best for last and used two of the others as two training games.

The first one, was a line of 4 Plains with cow and deer, before a river and a range of hills/mountains. It looked impoasible, but in the end I was making 25 spt while only using 11 citizens (there wasnt enough food a 12th). Unfortunately There was almost nothing else on this island and so it took me ages to grow to a size where I could realy build, So I was missing out on a lot of wonders.

I attached a picture of my Island and a view of Constantinople.

 

[Kulko]

So back to the blackboard and reading up acouple of more 20K posts.

Second start had a nice three cows and a long river, but not enough land tiles, to be really feasible.
But after first border expansion (see Screenshot) I realized, that the NN spot might be actually a really good spot (2 cows, 3 hills, 4 bgs, mountain, and 9 river tiles)

So I decided to go for secondary 20K spot, even though the palace prebuild would not be necessary at this level.


The Good:
The plan went quite well, as Constantinople was using the third cow to spit out workers, while 20k could grow organically to size 9, before I added in the last three workers.
Total Output 28 spt, corrupted down to an nice even 25. After Shakespeare I went up to 41 and by then I had also rebuild the palace, because I lost the wonder casced at Leos workshop.
I also had Ivory on my island, so I got the SoZ, which I then used to rteprimand a sneak attack by Japan to capture their diamond town right across the straigths.
The AI never really bothered in the tech racea dn couldn't even provide Poly in Time, so I had to research that myself, after I had done everything else.


The Bad:
Unfortunately I wasted one worker by joining him right before I started Anarchy on a empty food Box, so he was hungered away in the next turn.
I got my first SGL only well into the MA which I used for the Sistine,later I got another one which was only useful for the Great wall.(Maybe saving them for faster Theater might have been worth it, biut that would have been 15 turns or so.

Also I had no iron and coal on my island, which I took too long to remedy (the AI wouldnt sell) so I wasted about 30 turns after steam, before I got my empire railroaded.

Also I had not a single MGL. Didnt really start the necessary farming wars, but late in the Endgame Japan tried to recapture Edo (the gem town) and burned about 30 units on my infs, I never popped one.

Anopther thing I never managed was breaking the AI cascades, there was always at least one wonder available for them to buy. This cost me the ToA and another 100 Shields which I had to turn into a palace, after Leos went at the end of the last cascade and I had no Prebuild left for Shakespeare


Build Queue:
Oracle 1550 BC
Temple 1475 BC
GLib 900 BC
Lib 850 BC
SoZ 670 BC
MoM 510 BC
Cathedral 130 BC
Sistine Ch. 110 BC
Collosseum 10 BC
HG 230 AD
Uni 260 AD
FP 340 AD
JSBach 560 AD
TGW 570 AD
Shakespeare 740 AD
Copernicus 860 AD
Newton 980 AD
Palace 1120 AD
Univ Suff 1305 AD
ToE 1385 AD
Hoover Damm 1465 AD
Smith 1520 AD
Wall Street 1590 AD

Result: 1635 AD (which should be good for 9th.)

PS: I had one or two computer crashes, which forced a reload from the autosave, but i think I replayed the run accurately.

 

[Spoonwood]

What settings did you use for MapFinder?

 

[Kulko]

What settings did you use for MapFinder?

80% Archipelago, 3 Mio, Warm, Wet
Looking for river, 2 food und 2 hills.
Coast was automatic since Byzanz is seafaring.

He managed to find 7 maps in 3000 tries, running overnight. from these 4 look playable so far.

 

[Spoonwood]

I usually go with a river and a grassland cow for my settings. For a small 80% archipelago I get around... probably a little less... than what you got with your settings.

 

[Kulko]

Yes after playing one to the finish I would also say, getting a well times SGL to break up the AI cascades and planning better ahead to cash rush/unitdisband rush the small culture buildings will probably improve the time more then looking for a perfect map.

Can I ask your suggestion, how best to play the following start:

Spoiler :

I see three possibilitties:
A) settle 1 nw and go for it ( Only 1 hill and at least 5 water in the city cross)
B) settle on the cow and go for it (at least 2 hills, but 1 fewer cow. 1 turn saved at the start)
C) Settle as A but build 20K site E-SE of the current spot (This should be very fine spot for 20 K)

I tend to go for C, but I am not sure that choosing another city as 20K spot is not wasting too much in a monarch game.

 

[Spoonwood]

Except for Sid level, I recommend using the capital for a 20k game. I think I'd move the settler to the 7 spot, which lies on the coast, not on the forest and go from there. You could also move the worker to the 9 spot to scout a little first, but I think I'd just move with the settler and irrigate immediately. You can forest all those cows for 3 shields each, and with the relatively low tech cost of a Monarch game, getting to Engineering probably won't take too long. I'd be interested to know what your capital site looks like, and how your game goes.

 

[Tone]

That's a tough one. I would be tempted to scout with the worker (maybe 3 direction?). Another cow, or maybe even a bg and I'd be tempted to settle on that cow. Def. use capital for 20K city. Foresting cows is a great plan though for entering MA. Something that I never did but should have done for some games.

Keep us posted!

 

[templar_x]

that is something you cannot see very often: +10fpt possible in Despo, 1-turn worker factory possible in Despo! (not that it would count here)

my first reaction would have been, settle on the cow. but i did no maths over it.

t_x

 

[Kulko]

Here is my first 15 turns The attachement shows a acreenshot of the area

Spoiler :

T1: movd settler, irrigated cow
T2: Founded 20K --> Curragh
T8: Started settler
T11: Arabia on our Island, thank god its monarch, so the just provided fodder for leader fishing later on.
T15 Settler --> Colossus
Masonry -- Writing (no SGL)
(Was contemplating buying CB for BW and start with temple, but Arabia had it researched already, so the deal was not there anyway.

 

[sanabas]

You may find this now 7 eek year old thread helpful. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=162674

 

[Kulko]

Thanks for the link Sanabas. I think I will try to analyze the different approaches and see if I can chafe of a few turns in the beginning too.

As for the game with the 4 cows, only 1 SGL during th whole game (and that as Scifi civ which reached the modern age) doomed this one. I managed 1620AD, which should still land on the table, but SGL luck seems to be more important than a good start in 20K.

I also learned quite a bit about the beginning of the Industrial, which I would like to do better next time namely:
- Have more workers ready after builing Shakespeares as Pollutions starts to appear (it took me multiple turns to clean for a while, because lack of workers)
- Have a coal expedition ready (maybe even two) in order to connect coal as fast as possible.
- Dont overlook the forth lux on your homeisle, just because its hidden under a city nametag.
- Magellans is actually a cool culture wonder so buld it fast. (I build it in the modern age).
- Maybe a bit more leader fishing would have helped, but I couldnt be bothered, after the Arabs were send swimming.

Build List:
palace 3950BC
Colossus 2230BC
Temple 1725BC
Oracle 1100BC
Lib 1075BC
GLib 660BC
ToA 390BC
HG 190BC
HE 30BC
Colosseum 30AD
Cath 110AD
MoM 250AD
Uni 280AD
Sistine 480AD
Shakespeare 490AD
Bach 730AD
Newton 870AD
Copes 1000AD
ToE 1200AD
Hoovers 1340AD
Wall Street 1385AD
Mil.Acad. 1440AD
Res Lab 1445AD
SETI 1515AD
Magellan 1545AD
Smith 1590AD

 

[Kulko]

PS: Why is my accepted game not showing up on the fastest finish list? Will the lists only be updated monthly?

 

[Calis]

PS: Why is my accepted game not showing up on the fastest finish list? Will the lists only be updated monthly?

Yes, have a bit of patience.

 

[Kulko]

Thanks.

PS:I think 15 days count as a bit of patience. Just wanted to make sure that I dont waste another two or three tries trying to optimize the wrong variable.

 

[Tone]

I did say recently that I would update as games were accepted, but given that we've accepted 10 games so far since the last update I thought that it would be good to have a normal update. That means publication on the 15th. Bad idea or can you wait a little longer?

 

[Kulko]

No hurry, as long as I know the process and its taking less than 2 month everything is fine with me.

As I am playing 20K right now I am investing only marginal in the score and I wanted to make sure that this doesn't bite me in the end.

 

[Kulko]

After playing 12 games as babylon I have the grand total of 1.5 ancient SGL to show for it (one came on mono but was still used to break up the cascade of ancient wonders).

So I have decided to try a different approach and go agri for faster growth and more base food. On monarch I still get all the wonders and its easier to get to size 12 or hit 25 spt when there.

Starting build order is
Temple
Settler
Worker
Colossus
Worker
Oracle

I research
BW
Alpha bought from rome
Writing
Myst
Col
Philo
Lit
Math
Currency
Construction
Poly

And in my second game i managed to snatch a SGL on Myst and another one on Poly.
So I got an extra pyramids and an early ToA and now I think whether to include TGL or just rush faster to sistines and shakespeares. Also in the second scenario I might run out of prebuilds.

I started on the same island as Rome, but was able to box them in on two ironless cities. Only problem with that, was that they got bored and decided to attack, costing me about 80 shields of various lib prebuilds in whipping up a reaction force before they took my settler factory. Luckily the AI doesnt attack with spears against warriors so i was able to rush a a spear. By now the ancient cavs are arriving and after the 20 turns peace, they will be history.

Only problem I have left is getting fast enough to free artistry and finding iron for railroads, but i will probably set up my AC for a ROP rape to hit mongolia and claim his luxes.

PS: I was having an even harder time finding river starts with the celts or sumerians, even if i dropped the coastal requirement.